Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter - Page 6 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-31-2015, 06:14 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I dont know where all this talk of 850hp comes from, but on e85 id1k's are tapped out just past 400 wheel. Let's say 450 would be the absolute max.

And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
I dyno'd 851hp yesterday. There.

EDIT: And I'm out of juice! Looks like I'll be bumping up my fuel pressure soon.


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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
My first and second post in this thread was to get a baseline sans filter...with a bellmouth....just sayin
I and everyone that can read and chose to do so knows that. Like I said, I had to add in a section to get the pipe away from the tire to help prevent any debris from being thrown into the inlet.

You'll like my last post, it shows the inlet is the problem. Now I know that for sure and have data to prove it.

At this point I'm guessing I should buy a spectre filter with a 6" inlet, and then buy a silicone belmouth piece they sell that goes from 6" to 3" with a sweet transition.

Unless you gots a better/or cheaper idea.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:24 PM   #102
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http://www.lysholm.us/pdf/diagram_lys1600ax.pdf

There is the compressor map of the older less efficient 1600AX. If you are taking 130hp to drive your blower you are so far off the map you are for sure making more boost than you are power and could benefit by dropping your boost pressure.

If you extrapolate 18,000 rpm on that map you are around 65kwh of power to drive the blower at redline. That's roughly 87 horsepower.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:43 PM   #103
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And when you are calculating your required fuel flow You don't do the calculation with a Supercharged BSFC and then also account for the additional drag of the supercharger. The increased BSFC already has a modifier for the blower's loss.

If you are trying to account for some theoretical supercharger loss then you don't need to use a Supercharged BSFC because you are then "double counting."
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:45 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post

At this point I'm guessing I should buy a spectre filter with a 6" inlet, and then buy a silicone belmouth piece they sell that goes from 6" to 3" with a sweet transition.
This is a K&N part that they include in one of their intake kits. You can use this plus a 4" to 3" reducer coupler. Or send them an email and ask them if they make a similar part with a 3" outlet instead of the 4".















Attached Thumbnails
Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-img_9413_edb5ab85fa130f2876cc76884b132e5831e62378.jpg   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-img_9410_07dcfb06e9790c8b6396633f6b22ac1f034e7f09.jpg   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-img_9409_a46d193f8b13f32356b30518ca51a546cbdc04e6.jpg   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-img_9408_ccfdc4af22a5d3b4c8c5fb41696c6f03ec61f912.jpg   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-img_9407_e2c29748bc8fc80a13b78f4368455dd5a843afca.jpg  

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Old 12-31-2015, 06:46 PM   #105
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And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:00 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I dont know where all this talk of 850hp comes from, but on e85 id1k's are tapped out just past 400 wheel. Let's say 450 would be the absolute max.

And if pat's claims of 100whp loss to the sc are legit, that means his car will run out of juice at 300-350 wheel...or something like taht
******* this. And you've gotta have a really optimistic dyno to make closer to 450 than 400
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:34 PM   #107
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Latest Data added

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Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-filter_graph_8c6de56fad4ec9343f15f84773a80365e3f7f79a.jpg  
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:15 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
I have extrapolated the maps before I designed the setup, and I did the actual HP calculations based on adiabatic efficiency and the work the blower is doing to the air. I know about what it pulls down base on two different calculations I've done, both are over 100hp at this mass flow/RPM level. Like you said, 3 bar is wayyyyy over the map on the stock 1600 map that isn't for my blower anyway.

But I'm not here posting crap about any of that, this is supposed to be about air filter testing and now intake testing since I've found that's a bigger factor than the filter itself.

cyontani, than you very much for posting those pics and the chart again! I think I'm going to be buying something just like that from Spectre actually.

I made a new 3 to 4" trumpet and will be testing that tonight to see what affect that has. Gotta fuel it up first and other stuff. Will have more data soon!
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:28 PM   #109
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Yea.....I think I'm going to be a spectator from here on out.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:57 AM   #110
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I made a 3" to 4" trumpet. It's not perfect but it's something for testing at least. I tested it and it works, so I now made it a bit better, will retest it tomorrow and then with it inside the filter. But for now here's what I got.

The trumpet performs the best by far. My AFRs leaned out big time, and boost went up! I'm at 29.8 PSI now at 7,500 vs 28 before! More boost, more duty cycle, and leaner AFRs all point to more airflow.

Tomorrow I'll be bumping up my fuel pressure to get my AFRs back in check.

Very surprised at what a difference the inlet makes.

Also worth noting, I noticed something is going on with the Secondary MAP sensors baseline reading. It's normally 98ish kPa at idle, but it's wandering around a bit for some reason. I noted in the latest excel sheet the idle kPa of the Sec Map sensor and put the delta P in parentheses next to the actual reading to give a more accurate representation of the delta. Also added boost to the graph so afr/boost is there too.

Thanks for the feedback on this topic gentlemen!



Attached Thumbnails
Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-no%2520filter%25203%2520to%25204%2520velocity%2520stack_zps1u8wax0t.png   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-p%2520drop%2520numbers%25203_zps5es2rpwb.png  
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Old 01-01-2016, 04:49 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
This is a K&N part that they include in one of their intake kits. You can use this plus a 4" to 3" reducer coupler. Or send them an email and ask them if they make a similar part with a 3" outlet instead of the 4".
Spectre Performance Air Intake Velocity Funnels 9602 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:15 PM   #112
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What secret sauce makes your MAT go _down_ when you do a pull?
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:21 PM   #113
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Superchargers spin even when you don't want boost, or no airflow. There's talk of dump valves or diverter valves, I think pat doesn't have one for noise or something.
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:57 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Superchargers spin even when you don't want boost, or no airflow. There's talk of dump valves or diverter valves, I think pat doesn't have one for noise or something.
His is recirc. So it just heats the air over and over again, then when you get boost it gets fresh air.

Pat do you pull your recirc air from pre or post intercooler
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Old 01-02-2016, 02:05 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
What secret sauce makes your MAT go _down_ when you do a pull?
I have the AIT hooked up pre-sc. I have a sensor pre-SC and post-intercooler. The pre-sc one works better at keeping my AFRs correct when in boost, if using the post-ic one they lean out due to the rising temp causing it to pull fuel from the MAT air density curve.


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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
His is recirc. So it just heats the air over and over again, then when you get boost it gets fresh air.

Pat do you pull your recirc air from pre or post intercooler
Post-intercooler. Keeps the blower a lot cooler since the air gets to recirculate though a big intercooler before going back. Made that change a few months ago, made a big difference in SC cooling.
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Old 01-10-2016, 01:55 AM   #116
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As an update, I ended up running the 4" trumpet I made into the Spectre filter. Filter w/ trumpet showed a 2 kPa increase in pressure drop vs the trumpet alone FWIW.

This put me maxing out my fuel system at the time. I fixed that, will update my fuel thread shortly...
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:41 PM   #117
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Default K&N Filter RR-3003

I know it isn't empirical but I bought the K&N RR-3003.
K&N RR-3003 Reverse Conical Universal Air Filter, Universal Air Filters

Based upon Garrett's Air filter page:
Air Filter | Turbobygarrett

I measured the filter media:



and following their formula it should support 26.46 lbs/min of air flow.

Using BoostAdvisor, that filter should be good for 300 hp.




Again, not empirical, but I thought it may be helpful.
Attached Thumbnails
Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-u88lgd1_424799b70c0d5571ffa7cec17ce522de72cef6fe.png   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-hh2idsn_89aedf7198f6f98b5980490760ea5491e35454da.png   Amsoil Air filter pressure drop tested-Need better air filter-80-hh2idsn_661b49ba0ef3ddac6ddf693afdba0ed80a47f259.png  
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:24 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
And at that...they are all estimates. There are so many different factors that can impact the BSFC of an internal combustion engine. For example the actual calculated BSFC of my motor is close to what the "rules of thumb" are for many Turbo setups because of the compression ratio I run.
Which is why if the BEGI ALPHA OMEGA dynos are accurate they're making Diesel like BSFCs or corkey is lying about the size of the injectors in it.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:53 PM   #119
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Default Pressure Drop

Hello gentlemen.

I happy to participate in your pressure drop/efficiency quest.

There is no way to move about filter manufacturers in terms of filter sizing/permeability unless you have very specific information with regard to the media used.

Regards,
R2C Performance Engineering
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:34 PM   #120
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I don't think the only way I could have gone through a lot. the customer service and the rotary of the Suncoast the forum, and the Ivory the forum, and they are a lot more. we will not only did the first one is not an intended recipient, or sales and service. the lead time. I am proud of you who don't want the new one of those stock market is the only way to get it.
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