buick crew: thoughts on exhaust bits for MSM - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-28-2009, 10:10 AM   #21
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We don't want to change 1000 things on the car...just earlier spool and whatever power increase is possible without requiring a bigger radiator and all the other crap like new diverter valves and engine management. I thought exhaust and eventually cold-side parts would free up some power and rpm range, without requiring too many supporting mods. This is a daily driver that goes to the track frequently...its not a poser, valet box jockey.

This car lost the msm wheels for 15"-ers in its first week, then a roll bar, then brake pads, then the track on the 2nd weekend of ownership.

Is 3" exhaust and a downpipe going to add a little power (without overboosting) and help the turbo spool earlier without supporting mods, or should she spend the money on r-comps and brakes?
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:26 AM   #22
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Flyin' Miata : Tech: Mazdaspeed upgrade path

I couldnt agree more with their logic on this topic. I just ordered the intake kit. That'll get me the 200 im looking for or close to it.

Im going to just get a exhaust diverter valve and have it welded on the downpipe before the cat. Cheaper than a full exhaust and fun at the same time when it comes time to race. My car is my DD also.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:18 PM   #23
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I have a hard time paying $240 for a pipe and air filter though.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
We don't want to change 1000 things on the car...just earlier spool and whatever power increase is possible without requiring a bigger radiator and all the other crap like new diverter valves and engine management. I thought exhaust and eventually cold-side parts would free up some power and rpm range, without requiring too many supporting mods. This is a daily driver that goes to the track frequently...its not a poser, valet box jockey.

This car lost the msm wheels for 15"-ers in its first week, then a roll bar, then brake pads, then the track on the 2nd weekend of ownership.

Is 3" exhaust and a downpipe going to add a little power (without overboosting) and help the turbo spool earlier without supporting mods, or should she spend the money on r-comps and brakes?

You're not listening and making assumption. Almost everything I mentioned takes less than an hour and use common hand tools, and most MSM owners have made these changes on their daily drivers. It's basic bolt on stuff. I said IC not radiator. I've seen a few folks change their radiator, but in most all cases they didn't need too, they just wanted too "just in case" at the time they were not having any issues with over heating, even at the track. You can keep the stock IC, but if you track the car on hot days it you will be down on power. Changing the IC takes a couple hours and is pretty cheap. Diverter valve is a 30 minute job. Sure a 3 inch and DP will get you a decent power increase...but you will also see a hell of a nice power jump if you put a Cold air intake on it and turn the boost up to just under 10.5 PSI. With 3 inch exhaust and SGDP, some people see boost creep, mostly due to the wastegate flapper. If you want to make sure not to have to deal with that issue, stay with 2.5 and non Seperated gas DP.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:22 PM   #25
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I have a hard time paying $240 for a pipe and air filter though.
You can get an AEM for around $150 from nopionline.com. Or go to the MSM site a wait for a used one, or make you own. The stock air box is very restrictive. It may sound like a lot of money to you, but for a 30 rwhp increase, is it really? And when I say 30 rwhp, this is what I actually saw on the dyno with my car, it's not a guess.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:37 PM   #26
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Exhaust, intake, DP, bigger IC. If you/she shops around for a bit and looked for deals, you could probably do everything for around $1k. I would replace the IC with a CXracing one and make it work DIY style. Same with the intake, you can buy a new filter and some pipes and make it work. Then your looking at only buying the 3" exhaust and DP. That's how I would do it if I owned a MSM.

Vash-
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:48 PM   #27
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Based on what you guys have said, I'm thinking intake and exhaust are the cheapest and simplest upgrades.
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:54 PM   #28
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+1

I think we're so used to the rice crowd slapping on intake and exhaust and bragging about unreal gains that we almost forget that it should be the first thing upgraded on a real factory performance car.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #29
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Based on what you guys have said, I'm thinking intake and exhaust are the cheapest and simplest upgrades.

Yes, they are cheap, easy and affective. Should get you very close to 200 rwhp as long as you turn the boost up from the factory 7.5 psi to 10.5. and the gains are "VERY" noticable. There are no ill effects turning boost up to 10.5 psi. If you want more than 10.5 you would have to do another mod anyway (2 bucks and 10 minutes) The intake elbow is soft rubber, I garantee you you will eventually replace it with either the FM or begi piece because eventually it will swell up and start to pop off.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
The stock air box is very restrictive. It may sound like a lot of money to you, but for a 30 rwhp increase, is it really? And when I say 30 rwhp, this is what I actually saw on the dyno with my car, it's not a guess.
whoa, 30whp from just the pipe (no boost controller)? That's convincing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
Yes, they are cheap, easy and affective. Should get you very close to 200 rwhp as long as you turn the boost up from the factory 7.5 psi to 10.5. and the gains are "VERY" noticable. There are no ill effects turning boost up to 10.5 psi. If you want more than 10.5 you would have to do another mod anyway (2 bucks and 10 minutes) The intake elbow is soft rubber, I garantee you you will eventually replace it with either the FM or begi piece because eventually it will swell up and start to pop off.
heat...extra boost means you need more radiator and I seriously doubt the stock cooling system will get the job done in the summer heat on the track. The throttle-body boot is already replaced.

So...back to the age old question, "Is the cool-air intake box worth the money?"
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:40 PM   #31
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my sister talked to Stephanie/BEGi. They're did some miata-girl-power **** and she made her mind-up. Exhaust, intake, DP, then intercooler. She's going to have a bad *** little 200whp track-buick with awesome suspension, lol. Borther-sister turbo miata track crew, lol.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
whoa, 30whp from just the pipe (no boost controller)? That's convincing.
But then again, we've run 235 whp on the stock intake......
The only reason you would see a 30 hp increase is because the manual boost controller is added.

Don't forget hustler said no boost controller earlier in the thread. So I'd still do the intake. That is basic logic. You have to increase incoming volume. The more air, and the colder it is, the better.

If you are set on the exhaust, go the exhaust route. But a 3" exhaust is slight overkill on the stock MSM turbo. But I can understand the sounds of exhausts can irritate you beyond belief.

Intercooler next, followed by the downpipe.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
whoa, 30whp from just the pipe (no boost controller)? That's convincing.



heat...extra boost means you need more radiator and I seriously doubt the stock cooling system will get the job done in the summer heat on the track. The throttle-body boot is already replaced.

So...back to the age old question, "Is the cool-air intake box worth the money?"
The increase was with the CAI and manual boost controller which I have stated more than once. Quit frankly if I had not done a baseline dyno run, I would be a bit skeptical myself. 3 extra PSI has proven not to produce enough addtional heat to be an issue, especailly with the larger IC. I already told you about the stock cooling system. I guess you know more about the car than I and others that already have one. I'm not making this **** up, I'm trying to provide you with accurate information. Plenty of MSM owners track their cars. If you are going to imply I'm bullshitting I can just let you go find the info yourself, which will be pretty much what I'm telling you.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner View Post
If you are set on the exhaust, go the exhaust route. But a 3" exhaust is slight overkill on the stock MSM turbo. But I can understand the sounds of exhausts can irritate you beyond belief.

Intercooler next, followed by the downpipe.
Stephanie
I think her 2.5" RB muffler with the stock "mid-pipe" was a waste of cash, and the turbo doesn't hit target boost until 4500rpm. My 3" howls, snarls, and pops...we like that kind of stuff. But its whatever, you two talked so its all said and done.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:52 PM   #35
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But then again, we've run 235 whp on the stock intake......
The only reason you would see a 30 hp increase is because the manual boost controller is added.

Don't forget hustler said no boost controller earlier in the thread. So I'd still do the intake. That is basic logic. You have to increase incoming volume. The more air, and the colder it is, the better.

If you are set on the exhaust, go the exhaust route. But a 3" exhaust is slight overkill on the stock MSM turbo. But I can understand the sounds of exhausts can irritate you beyond belief.

Intercooler next, followed by the downpipe.
Stephanie
His rational for not increasing boost is flawed. raising boost to 10 psi, especially if he does the intake and IC will not generate to much heat, which is what I have been trying to convey to him. Maybe he will believe you even though you essentially just told him what I already told him.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:55 PM   #36
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I think her 2.5" RB muffler with the stock "mid-pipe" was a waste of cash, and the turbo doesn't hit target boost until 4500rpm. My 3" howls, snarls, and pops...we like that kind of stuff. But its whatever, you two talked so its all said and done.
An O2 modifier will smooth out that 4500 rpm surge and make the boost more linear and progressive.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:55 PM   #37
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The increase was with the CAI and manual boost controller which I have stated more than once. Quit frankly if I had not done a baseline dyno run, I would be a bit skeptical myself. 3 extra PSI has proven not to produce enough addtional heat to be an issue, especailly with the larger IC. I already told you about the stock cooling system. I guess you know more about the car than I and others that already have one. I'm not making this **** up, I'm trying to provide you with accurate information. Plenty of MSM owners track their cars. If you are going to imply I'm bullshitting I can just let you go find the info yourself, which will be pretty much what I'm telling you.
I appreciate your advice. Read what I quoted, the question has merit. I know lots of people track MSM's, but how many do it in 100* heat? I've seen 2 MSM's overheat on stock power and stock cooling bits at the track, which I why we don't want to play that game. Hell, I've made and seen stock NB's overheat on the track in 92* ambient weather.

I haven't been a dick yet, but I can if you prefer the free entertainment.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:57 PM   #38
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An O2 modifier will smooth out that 4500 rpm surge and make the boost more linear and progressive.
olderguy style?

Thanks.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:05 PM   #39
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I appreciate your advice. Read what I quoted, the question has merit. I know lots of people track MSM's, but how many do it in 100* heat? I've seen 2 MSM's overheat on stock power and stock cooling bits at the track, which I why we don't want to play that game.

I haven't been a dick yet, but I can if you prefer the free entertainment.
Makes me no never mind, just trying to help. If they are pushing hard enough to over heat and it is bone stock, a lot of that may have been helped by a better radiator and a good IC. That stock IC is pretty damn small. In 100 degree weather in daily traffic you can fell the power loss with the stock unit.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:07 PM   #40
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olderguy style?

Thanks.
I'm not familiar with his, I had an FM one, unfortuantly I just sold it less than 2 weeks ago, I would have let you have it dirt as cheap because I bought a hydra and no longer had a need for it. Also, I agree with Steph that a 3 inch exhaust is overkill without more upgrades, I kept quite on that one because that almost always starts a 10 page argument.
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