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Old 02-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKav View Post
Make it less rigid in one plane like the stock MSM one.
Do you advise against mounting with the CHRA hardware? I'm hesitant to attempt welding a cast SS turbine housing.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Make it less rigid in one plane like the stock MSM one.
Just like this?

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Old 02-18-2011, 02:55 PM   #63
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:02 PM   #64
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Just like this?

An suddenly Hustler is held captive by his v-banding.

What are everyone thoughts on connecting this to the oil return flange? Jacking with the oil fittings makes me nervous in general.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:04 PM   #65
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I still like the single support under the turbo. It follows the "keep it simple stupid" mantra. One support that can take the entire weight of the turbo. Adjustable so it can be preloaded. As you mentioned earlier the farther the turbo assembly is away from the engine, the more the "lever arm" physics stat to play a part. A long radius will create a lot of Force when the car is in motion. Quick suspension compression and rebound movements must be brutal on the turbo an manifold.

A preloaded single arm under the turbo will remove all of this experienced load from sharp movements of the car. The harder part is finding a good place to mount the bracket that supports the single support. i.e can it go from the block to the chassis? constructing a mount that bolts to the motor mount are shouldn't be too difficult.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:06 PM   #66
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Just like this?

This looks like failboat. Possitive is that it is aluminum so it dissipates heat, negatives is that the aluminum will flex in the direction that will put load on the the turbo/manifold attatchment point. If it is not aluminum, then it might be ok
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:08 PM   #67
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It's steel painted with silver high heat paint.

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Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
This looks like failboat. Possitive is that it is aluminum so it dissipates heat, negatives is that the aluminum will flex in the direction that will put load on the the turbo/manifold attatchment point. If it is not aluminum, then it might be ok
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:09 PM   #68
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It's steel painted with silver high heat paint.
Then I am on board with that mount. Steel tha thick should not flex or get hot enough to bend.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:10 PM   #69
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I'm starting to realize that I have to weld to the turbine housing. However, although Jkav said the turbine housing was CoM, my housing is much lighter than most cast iron housings, maybe even the chra is CoM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:44 PM   #70
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So you are using the nimonic/iconel bolts from Tial so they shouldn't stretch but they are coming loose from vibration? or do the iconel bolts stretch with movement of the turbo/manifold?
If you just need to safety wire the iconel bolts but don't want to have them drilled you can get bend up safety wire tab washers. You just bend the tabs up around the head of the bolt and then safety wire the holes. cheap too.
http://www.tbmperformance.com/produc...b-Washers.html
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #71
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OK I'm dense, which bolt(s) is hustler having trouble with now, and why is the solution better support and not a more heat resistant bolt?

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 02-18-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:25 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Aryamehr:
I like this. If vibration is your problem the best way to do something about it is to add more stiff mounting points. This effectively changes the mass changes the natural frequency...
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:27 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
How do I make a rigid brace that permits expansion and contraction of the manifold?
Hard rubber biscuit like a motor mount or similar? It would quell vibration, support some weight, and allow expansion without cracking the manifold.

I'm brainstorming...
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
OK I'm dense, which bolt(s) is hustler having trouble with now, and why is the solution better support and not a more heat resistant bolt?
Quote:
TiAL doesn't understand the need for a failsafe, drilled inconel bolt. So I'm stuck using the standard crap metal bolt supplied by TiAL
^^^
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:33 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
OK I'm dense, which bolt(s) is hustler having trouble with now, and why is the solution better support and not a more heat resistant bolt?
My progression:
  1. standard bolt: failed, broken turbine
  2. Nimonic bolts: failed so bad they fell out in one session, almost damaged the turbine
  3. stardard bolt, SS wire: failed and stretched wire, almost damaged the turbine
  4. standard bolt, inconel wire: failed after 4-6 days, failed safe, drove the last session and 5-hours home without damage
  5. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire: called TiAL, claimed they did't read my instruction and don't have equipment to drill inconel. I'm not pleased of the lack of support. If I could go back in time and buy Turbosmart parts with a 4-bolt flange and inconel bolts I would
I don't regret the v-band, I haven't found a solution for my extreme duty yet. Apparently I'm "that" hardcore. I'm going to Austin for the weekend now, feel free to debate this and I appreciate everyone's input. Right now the sittuation isn't bad enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I'd like a zero-maintenance solution...that may be unreasonable considering I race a turbo car and want to do no maintenance.

Really, thanks to everyone for their input. I never thought that by the time I was 30 (1-more day) that I'd have a car like this with such respectable engineering.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #76
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A few comments, some OT and some not.

Aren't these cranes meant to support the weight of the turbo and also keep the manifold from cracking? I don't think that their intended purpose is to keep bolts from coming out.

Have you tried resbonding your turbine bolts?

OT: Why keep your lower timing belt cover but not the upper?

P.S. You can install the ATI damper with the motor in the car no problemo. I have a how-to in my build thread. I think someone was selling a used one here for $400 recently.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Hard rubber biscuit like a motor mount or similar? It would quell vibration, support some weight, and allow expansion without cracking the manifold.

I'm brainstorming...
"Vibration-Damping Sandwich Mounts" From mcaster.com, rubber and heat don't mix very well, but BRP used them to support their supercharger kits (My brother had to order a replacement recently, the kits PO had over torqued it)
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:56 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
My progression:
  1. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire:


Delta Fastener Corp. 7122 Old Katy Road Houston, Texas 77024
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Fax: 713-868-6219
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
My progression:
  1. standard bolt: failed, broken turbine
  2. Nimonic bolts: failed so bad they fell out in one session, almost damaged the turbine
  3. stardard bolt, SS wire: failed and stretched wire, almost damaged the turbine
  4. standard bolt, inconel wire: failed after 4-6 days, failed safe, drove the last session and 5-hours home without damage
  5. tial provides inconel bolt with no holes for wire: called TiAL, claimed they did't read my instruction and don't have equipment to drill inconel. I'm not pleased of the lack of support. If I could go back in time and buy Turbosmart parts with a 4-bolt flange and inconel bolts I would
Are the bolts backing out due to vibration, or yielding due to heat? I'm guessing the former, because your EGTs would have to be nuclear to yield/relax the inconel bolts holding the Thsg to the chra.

In which case, address the vibration issue.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:17 PM   #80
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I'd post every one of Hustler's "buy a v-band peasant" type of quotes but I'm too lazy.

-Zach
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