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Old 11-17-2008, 08:18 PM   #1
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Default Hawk brake compounds

Last month we had the rep for Hawk here for a huge high performance seminar we do every three months and I got the chance to talk to him about some of there compounds and uses and he brought something to my attention that I really liked.

Most people who put Hawk pads on there car are using the HP+ or HPS compound which is intended for street/autoX use and is pretty much the first step into Hawk pads. HP+ is the lower grade of the two, I personally wouldnt reccomend them as they are a noisier and dustier pad, I personally use HPS for daily driving and can not give any bad review.

I was asking him about what compounds would give more biting power without stepping up to a racing compound that would just eat my rotors for dinner and well surprisingly he already had an answer for me. He had someone test a DTC-30 compound on a Corvette while autocrossing, with nothing but rave reviews.

The DTC-30 compound was originally a Dirt Track Compound that has the same rotor wear properties as the HPS with the downside of a little more dust. They decided to use the pads as a daily to find out the long term abuse on the rotors which they concluded was similar to the HPS. I am not trying to sell anything here just pass on this info to anyone looking for a little more bite on there DD/AutoX car.
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:54 PM   #2
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HP Plus is more aggressive than HPS. I wouldn't call it "lower grade" when it performs better at stopping the car.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:01 AM   #3
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Thanks, for the report. I had been using HP+ on my wilwoods and 1.8 rear, stops on a dime but it does gives some noise especially while stopping in reverse! as crazy as that sounds during alot of parking manuver. Rotor killer? not too sure yet, but Dust is definitly a turn off.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:30 AM   #4
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I ran down 3 sets of HP+ on my 94whp car with street rubber over 19-track days. I really like that pad, but I'm on the upper MOT limit. They squeek and they're dusty, but I don't care. I thought they were fairly easy on rotors...and why would you care with $20 rotors?

I'm going to try carbotechs on emilios recommendation, because of the prospect of streeting xp10's. If they don't outlast the Blue's, then I'm going to bitch and moan about the cash I wasted.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meola View Post
Most people who put Hawk pads on there car are using the HP+ or HPS compound which is intended for street/autoX use and is pretty much the first step into Hawk pads. HP+ is the lower grade of the two, I personally wouldnt reccomend them as they are a noisier and dustier pad, I personally use HPS for daily driving and can not give any bad review.

Sound like that rep needs to study up himself.

HP+ is an autocross/ light trackday pad. My DD pad.

HPS is their entry level shitty street pad.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:04 AM   #6
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I've been autocrossing an 89 RX-7 for 5 years now and have run both the HPS and the HP Plus. The HP Plus is very easy to modulate, yet seems to improve as the heat builds, without getting too grippy. They would give all that the Kuhmo V710 slicks could take without a problem. The stock pads I used prior to them got worse as heat increased and became useless very quickly (which meant longer waits between runs). I ordered a new set from Jeg's and was sent the HPS by accident. I wanted to race that weekend so I went ahead and used them. Save your money if you are thinking about buying the HPS and just get some cheapos at Autozone. They are very similar.
I sold the RX-7 and bought my Miata recently. HP Plus pads are on the "to-do" list.

BTW dust was not even close to excessive. The car wasn't a daily driver, but I would drive it everywhere and the brakes went from average to amazing with the change to HP Plus. If you really want to stop well, they are worth a little dust. If you want it to always be pretty, park it in your living room.

Last edited by sixshooter; 11-18-2008 at 11:15 AM. Reason: second thoughts
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:22 AM   #7
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Id rather run a hp+ any day of the week over hps. Even if my car was a dd I think I could handle it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:28 PM   #8
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I did some researching and it turns out Braineack was right, but you know the people pushing the product on the distributor dont really need to know much about it. The compounds for Hawk go as follows (low end to top end)

HPS: Entry Level Ferro-Carbon Pad, acts like your standard ceramic pad.

***Increased noise, dust, pad and rotor wear from this point on***

HP Plus: AutoX/Club Track Days, Track 'n Back without a brake change

DR-97: Drag Racing

Black: Dirt Circle Track

Blue 9012: #1 SCCA choice, Multi-purpose compound

MT-4: Pavement Circle Track under 2800lbs

HT-10: Higher Torque then 9012

HT-14: F2000, F3000, Trans Am and Porsche GT, designed for high deceleration

DTC-05: Dirt Circle Track and AutoX, designed for low torque

DTC-30: Dirt Circle Track and AutoX

DTC-60: NASCAR, ARCA, ASA, Open Wheel/Formula

DTC-70: NASCAR, ARCA, ASA, Open Wheel/Formula, designed for high deceleration.

All your DTC compounds are a serious race compound and will be extremely hard on your rotors. DTC is Hawks acronym for Dynamic Torque Control using these pads will allow you to setup certain vehicle characteristics under braking.

The HPS is considered harder on your rotors in comparison to say a raybestos ceramic pad.

And well I care about how much unnessecary wear is inflicted on my rotors cause you sure as hell dont pay $20 for Powerslot rotors, and if you do please let me know and I will make that company richer beyond belief. Slotted rotors on all four wheels alone is going to be about $400
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:43 PM   #9
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stop buying slotted rotors. I just saved you $320.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
stop buying slotted rotors. I just saved you $320.
Agreed. Slotted rotors are a waste of money if you are looking for performance benefits.
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by boileralum View Post
Agreed. Slotted rotors are a waste of money if you are looking for performance benefits.
I will never run anything but a slotted rotor, and if you havent run a powerslot rotor then dont talk. Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock. Not to mention the loss of brake fade and cooler running temps of my brakes, cooler brakes mean better stopping and less stress on your rotor.

I prefer my brakes to work when I am coming down a mountain side at 160km/h but thats just my opinion. Not to mention I sell car parts all day long so there is no hope in hell of me personally paying that much cost me $300 to do a four wheel brake job last time with hawk pads and powerslot rotors.

The weight of a miata does not justify the need to get a big brake kit just upgrade what you have on your exsisting car, much cheaper and pretty much just as effective.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:07 PM   #12
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Sorry but thats just wrong. Slots will decrease the surface area of the rotor thus decreasing the amount of breaking force they provide. You just pulled the 50% number out of your ***. Not to mention if the slots have sharp edges they will wear the pad faster than normal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meola View Post
I will never run anything but a slotted rotor, and if you havent run a powerslot rotor then dont talk. Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock. Not to mention the loss of brake fade and cooler running temps of my brakes, cooler brakes mean better stopping and less stress on your rotor.

I prefer my brakes to work when I am coming down a mountain side at 160km/h but thats just my opinion. Not to mention I sell car parts all day long so there is no hope in hell of me personally paying that much cost me $300 to do a four wheel brake job last time with hawk pads and powerslot rotors.

The weight of a miata does not justify the need to get a big brake kit just upgrade what you have on your exsisting car, much cheaper and pretty much just as effective.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
I will never run anything but a slotted rotor, and if you havent run a powerslot rotor then dont talk.
I have, so I'll talk:




Quote:
Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock.
Ridiculous statement. Did the Powerslot Sales Representative tell you this?

Quote:
Not to mention the loss of brake fade and cooler running temps of my brakes, cooler brakes mean better stopping and less stress on your rotor.
So does larger surface area in general. So would simple ducting. How much cooler does the powerslot run? Would $20 worth of ducting that could possibly give greater cooling potential not be a better place to put your money over $320 rotors?

Quote:
I prefer my brakes to work when I am coming down a mountain side at 160km/h but thats just my opinion.
I prefer my brakes to work at the end of turn #1 at Summit Point Main at 140mph (225 km/h).

Quote:
Not to mention I sell car parts all day long
I used to sell Power Slot rotors. I got them for $60 each (I thought I was getting a bargain). They, as seen above, didn't seem to work out so hot for me with race pads and 1 session at the track.

Quote:
so there is no hope in hell of me personally paying that much cost me $300 to do a four wheel brake job last time with hawk pads and powerslot rotors.
I spent $186 on my brake job. This included $50 for 1.8L brackets so I could use 10" rotors over the stock 9" ones. I'm not worried about stopping power or overheating with $15 NAPA blank rotors.

Quote:
The weight of a miata does not justify the need to get a big brake kit just upgrade what you have on your exsisting car, much cheaper and pretty much just as effective.
What happens when your power to weight ratio is in corvette range? They certainly don't have 9" rotors. Why is it, that when mazda added 200 lbs and only 20HP, they felt the need to go with bigger brake pads and rotors on the miata in 1994?

If you want slotted rotors....buy $15 blanks, take them to a mahcine shop and get the grooves cut yourself....the cost:benefit of Powerslot rotors is retarded.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #14
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #15
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I track my cars.... I use autozone plain old rotors. **** slotted/drilled junk. I don't need pretty rotors that fall apart... I need ones that have higher heat dissipation through mass and less weakness from cuts/holes.

Seriously... super big waste of money.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meola View Post
I will never run anything but a slotted rotor, and if you havent run a powerslot rotor then dont talk. Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock. Not to mention the loss of brake fade and cooler running temps of my brakes, cooler brakes mean better stopping and less stress on your rotor.

I prefer my brakes to work when I am coming down a mountain side at 160km/h but thats just my opinion. Not to mention I sell car parts all day long so there is no hope in hell of me personally paying that much cost me $300 to do a four wheel brake job last time with hawk pads and powerslot rotors.

The weight of a miata does not justify the need to get a big brake kit just upgrade what you have on your exsisting car, much cheaper and pretty much just as effective.
I'm holding my breath waiting for your data to back up that 50% claim... Being a car parts salesman gains you no credibility, especially since you had misinformation in your first post of the thread. Driving nearly 100mph on a public road is illegal and pretty freaking stupid. I prefer taking it to the track, or at least to a parking lot or airport filled with cones.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:40 PM   #17
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Congrats on losing all credibility as a good posting member lol
You don't come in here with 15 posts and make an *** of yourself and get away with it
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meola View Post
Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock.
Well, I do mean to be rude. You're ******* stupid. No pad/rotor combo will provide any more stopping power by any percentage, because stopping power (just like everything else traction-related) is dictated by the amount of rubber you have on the ground, and how good that rubber is. In addition, slotted rotors are the biggest waste of money. Every fast track Miata I've come across runs vented rotors with no other bullshit. Don't come onto this forum with 15 posts and try and sell us some bullshit about how the Powerslots you sell are better than what has been proven time and time again to work reliably and cost significantly less than the **** you're trying to push.

If you really cared about your rotors, you would throw those shitty Hawks away and get some Carbotechs. My XP12s dust and squeal like a set of Hawk Blues with 90% higher MOT and 600% better rotor wear. (Yes, 600%. You get 3 months out of a set of rotors with Blues, I'm supposed to get 18.)

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Not to mention I sell car parts all day long
Well color me ******* astonished. A parts store clerk providing shitty advice on parts? Name:  emot-monocle.gif
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meola View Post
I will never run anything but a slotted rotor, and if you havent run a powerslot rotor then dont talk. Dont mean to be rude but with a decent hawk compound and a powerslot rotor you can easily increase braking power by well over 50% compared to stock. Not to mention the loss of brake fade and cooler running temps of my brakes, cooler brakes mean better stopping and less stress on your rotor.
brain just **** on your chest.
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