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Old 08-01-2010, 05:05 PM   #1
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Default Mazda Speed3

Anyone had experience on swapping a Speed3 engine into a Miata ? The physical size is how much longer and wider? 260hp stock is tempting. Would the 6 speed bolt up to it or is there a mating plate available? Ignore the emission question. thanks.
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Old 08-01-2010, 05:47 PM   #2
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You'd go through all that trouble for 260hp? LOL
Might as well do a v8 swap and have 300hp/300tq cause I'm almost positive it would require the same amount of work.
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Old 08-01-2010, 05:56 PM   #3
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less work for v8.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:18 PM   #4
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Well, $ for HP. say $ 4k ( from a a wrecker) would get a 2.3L with 260 HP stock, or spend 4-5 K for replacing my 1.6 with a 1.8 and adding a turbo, fuel management etc. to get more than that. When the stock speed3 isn't enough upping the pressure very cheaply gets to be approaching v8 power with much less weight. $ per HP I think this makes sense, My application is weight sensitive kitcar at 1350 lbs and no room for v8.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:23 PM   #5
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IIRC a LS1 is about 200lb heavier than a bp. Just saying.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twpipe View Post
Well, $ for HP. say $ 4k ( from a a wrecker) would get a 2.3L with 260 HP stock, or spend 4-5 K for replacing my 1.6 with a 1.8 and adding a turbo, fuel management etc. to get more than that. When the stock speed3 isn't enough upping the pressure very cheaply gets to be approaching v8 power with much less weight. $ per HP I think this makes sense, My application is weight sensitive kitcar at 1350 lbs and no room for v8.
If your application is a kitcar why did you ask if it would fit in a Miata? $4k might buy you the motor, but I hardly doubt it will cover everything else needed to do the swap.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:23 PM   #7
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My square tube frame is built around the 1.6 Miata so similar problems except I can reach from almost every angle. The hood sits on top of the engine, I have 3" clearance off the oil pan. The transmission fits snuggly in. 3.5k delivered for a speed3 motor on ebay. This is factory turbo motor - new they are warrantied so nyone should be able to pump up hp quite a bit.
The 1.6 originally was a FWD out of a 323 and I would expect similar changes to do the same again with the Mazdaspeed3 therefore not expensive once a rear drive transmission is known. Any way I total the costs/expectations the future holds a different transmission anyway.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:54 PM   #8
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I'm not so sure about the reliability of the 2.3 disi turbo motor. I've personally seen two of them fail, one in a mazdaspeed6 and one in a mazdaspeed3. The 6 was driven pretty normally and had an intake and exhaust, the 3 was driven extremely aggressively but stock. The 6 had a bent rod at ~20k miles, and the 3 developed chain tensioner problems at about 6k miles and threw a rod at 8k miles.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...e-thread-6113/

I say just throw a F20c and turbo in it and be done. I've seen a couple complete s2000 drivetrains(engine, harness, gauge cluster, transmission, driveshaft, diff, and axles) for ~4k on ebay over the past year or so.

Last edited by Fidgitk; 08-02-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:00 PM   #9
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yeah but that's only 29 cases..... :( ooh ooh they have a problem.

Thank you Fidgitk for the information, don't think it is worthwhile pursuing this idea further.
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:03 PM   #10
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In the hypothetical world an NC drivetrain will bolt onto the 2.3 DISI being as they are both an MZR. You'd probably have to run an NC oil pan and pick up as well. But owning a 2.3 DISI myself I'd tend to shy away as a viable swap. It's a finicky power plant to say the least.

If you want displacement an FE3 2.3 stroker would require less fab and near the same "results".
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:22 PM   #11
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Are you going to get a transmission with the one you saw on Ebay for 3.5K? What about every thing else needed? What are you going to do for a rear-end?

Like every one else said, I believe it's going to be waist of time. Unless you are trying to do something new just for the sake of doing something new.

The 1.6 in your car is already a great motor. With the budget of 4-5K you can make a very nasty and very reliable 1.6. Seriously, getting a bottom end built for the 1.6 is literally dirt cheap compared to most motors and can take over 30psi easy.

Just my two cents. Whatever you choose to do, good luck and have fun with it
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Old 08-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #12
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The direct injection is lame to tune. 260hp through a bp is also pretty damn easy.
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twpipe View Post
Well, $ for HP. say $ 4k ( from a a wrecker) would get a 2.3L with 260 HP stock, or spend 4-5 K for replacing my 1.6 with a 1.8 and adding a turbo, fuel management etc. to get more than that. When the stock speed3 isn't enough upping the pressure very cheaply gets to be approaching v8 power with much less weight. $ per HP I think this makes sense, My application is weight sensitive kitcar at 1350 lbs and no room for v8.
I was going to write something stupid, but your car will be one thousand pounds of awsome. So:

Recheck your financials:

1.6 motor is just fine to turbo.
ebay turbo $400 with lines
ebay intercooler $400
piping and couplers $300
begi manifold (or any cast manifold) $500
EMS (megasquirt) $600
injectors $500
tuning $400
Total: $3100

I'm padding those numbers out A LOT. You could probably get a lot of these parts from someone in the classifieds for less. That part list should get you over 200hp easily and safely.
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:26 PM   #14
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Build an FE3 motor.
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:23 PM   #15
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faeflora has a good point, just a bit reluctant to build up either high mileage engines (153, 188k). The one in the car has seen a couple years of track time. But maybe at ebay cost it is a decent risk. but it doesn't seem like anyone stops at 225hp.
Braineack is likely sending me to dream land as I know nothing about that engine. found http://www.solomiata.com/FE3.html, good info. not a project for me
Currently doing a revision on my brakes then make a decision on more hp. Pedal and m/c setup has left me some problems.

thanks for your imputs.

Last edited by twpipe; 08-02-2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
IIRC a LS1 is about 200lb heavier than a bp. Just saying.
I thought they were actually a little lighter.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:09 PM   #17
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ha trust me the MS3/6 engine would be a pain in the ***. The ecu is really complex and a pain to tune (ive done it). As for the engine failures- i have 69xxx miles on mine... running 320whp/345tq (or more) for quite some time, I like to think a lot of the failures are from user fails or user install fails, but its not totally clear.. several guys also running around with 400 hp + on stock motor and clutch, but we will see how they stand the test of time.

but in all seriousness, there's gotta be better options out there with a lot more ecu/ems options and that are much more readily available and proven...BUT it would be cool to see the engine in a car like that, but I don't know how smart of an idea that is. Getting a regular mazda 3 2.3 and building it would probably be a better option, but then again we are looking at $$.
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