When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I recently inherited my uncle's 1999 NB and plan to turn it into a track day toy. I don't have a tow vehicle, so what I'm actually looking to make is a track-oriented car that's still comfortable enough to drive to 4-8 hours each way from my house in Southern Maine to the tracks in the Northeast. To wit: I'm keeping power steering and air conditioning. But I have another Miata (2019 RF Club 6MT), so I don't need this to work as a street car or a daily driver. It's purely a toy.
About the 1999: Leather package, 5MT, 4.3 Torsen, factory hardtop from a 1990 (no defog) painted to match. Has about 150K miles on the clock. No body rust on the car, but paint is junk and there are a lot of door dings. The cat was dead and the muffler had a hole in it, so I swapped in FM's catted mid pipe and muffler and a new O2 sensor. The rear shocks were completely blown, so I got a set of VMAXXX Extreme coilovers and FM sways. Also bought some 15x8 wheels and wrapped them in 225/45 Hankook R-S4s. Plus a lot of maintenance and non-performance items.
Then I happened across a good deal on a junk title MSM with 54K on it. Car was in a flood, but not badly. Water just came over the rockers but ruined the carpet and seat bottoms. Mechanically and electrically, everything works. Aside from the passenger door, the body is perfect. Nice paint. No dings. Fabric soft top is perfect. Mostly stock except for a hard dog roll bar, FM's MSM intake, a loud BOV, and some gaudy boat anchors for wheels.
If you had a MSM that was complete but had to be dismantled (junk title can't be re-registered here in Maine), and a solid running but shaggy NB1 and you wanted to make the best track-focused car, how would you build it? Let's assume that we're sticking primarily to the parts I've already got. No answers like, "pull all the MSM turbo parts and throw them in the bin and then buy better ****." Let's say upgrading the MSM components is a project for down the road in a "Phase 2." For now, in Phase 1, I need to work with what I've got to build the best thing. And I have to deal with emissions every year during inspection, which is done at the OBDII port. So no MSPNP for me--at least, not without also having the ability to swap back to the stock ECU once a year and have the thing actually run.
Specific questions: - ABS: is it worth having? I have all the parts to swap the ABS into the 1999. Should I bother? - Wiring swap: worth bringing over the MSM's engine and dash harnesses? Could run the car with stock computer (for now). - If I stick with the NB1's wiring, can I just install something like FM's Voodoo Box so I can control fuel under boost and still pass emissions? - I've heard the NB1 has a better intake than the MSM? is that true? Would I be able to run that if I use the MSM wiring? - NB1's steering rack > MSM steering rack, right?
- Anything special from either car that I just HAVE to use/keep?
- The 5MT is so much nicer to use than the 6MT. It seems like it would probably pair well with the MSM's 4.1 rear end. But is the extra strength better for track abuse, or will the 5MT be fine at near stock MSM power levels?
- Cooling - I am going to buy an aluminum crossflow radiator soon. Both the 1999 and the MSM have radiators that are turning greenish brown. But should I be doing the coolant re-route also? If so, what's the best option there for a turbo car?
Specific questions: - ABS: is it worth having? I have all the parts to swap the ABS into the 1999. Should I bother?
- The 5MT is so much nicer to use than the 6MT. It seems like it would probably pair well with the MSM's 4.1 rear end. But is the extra strength better for track abuse, or will the 5MT be fine at near stock MSM power levels?
I went to the effort to retrofit 2001 ABS into my 1999 track car, so I’m firmly in the “it’s worth having” camp..
Doesn’t stop you any quicker, but does save you flatspotting expensive race tyres, which was my purpose for doing it.
Also is a huge bonus when it’s pouring down, can make up lots of time under brakes on the non-abs cars who have to be much more careful not to lock a wheel and go off..
a stock MSM doesn’t make much more power than a nat asp car (!) so the 5 speed should be fine if you prefer that. If or when you turn up the wick then reconsider the 6 speed. I swapped to a 6 speed in my 99 and you can improve the shift quality a fair bit using a miataroadster shifter..
I went to the effort to retrofit 2001 ABS into my 1999 track car, so I’m firmly in the “it’s worth having” camp..
Doesn’t stop you any quicker, but does save you flatspotting expensive race tyres, which was my purpose for doing it.
Also is a huge bonus when it’s pouring down, can make up lots of time under brakes on the non-abs cars who have to be much more careful not to lock a wheel and go off..
a stock MSM doesn’t make much more power than a nat asp car (!) so the 5 speed should be fine if you prefer that. If or when you turn up the wick then reconsider the 6 speed. I swapped to a 6 speed in my 99 and you can improve the shift quality a fair bit using a miataroadster shifter..
Good info. I was expecting ABS to provide exactly the benefits you reported, so that helps push me in that direction. How did you do the swap? I assume a full donor car was used to bring everything over. But what about the wiring? Did you bring th whole harness from the donor car, or did you just splice it into your harness? If so, any intel on that would be appreciated.
Also, what Miataroadster shifter do you have? I've read that the regular height one actually increases the shift effort enough that you can find the gates more accurately. So was thinking I'd go that way if I used the 6MT, but very interested in your input.
The msm comes with better shocks so you can upgrade the springs and run those.
I wouldn't try to use the msm turbo setup if you are in an emissions area. It's not a good turbo and had a terrible ecu. The plumbing is also unnecessarily complicated.
Do the brakes and suspension, add a rollbar, and concentrate on learning to drive it.
Good info. I was expecting ABS to provide exactly the benefits you reported, so that helps push me in that direction. How did you do the swap? I assume a full donor car was used to bring everything over. But what about the wiring? Did you bring th whole harness from the donor car, or did you just splice it into your harness? If so, any intel on that would be appreciated.
Also, what Miataroadster shifter do you have? I've read that the regular height one actually increases the shift effort enough that you can find the gates more accurately. So was thinking I'd go that way if I used the 6MT, but very interested in your input.
a mate stuck his 2001 into the Armco so parted it out,
I grabbed the entire brake setup (booster,master, brake lines, calipers,uprights,abs unit & sensors) as mine was non sport brake and upgraded all at once.
The ABS on a 2001 is a standalone unit, so doesn’t require splicing into the main harness other than to get the light on the dash working and for power.
I did neither of these, getting power direct from a switched source in the under bonnet fuse box, and just wiring a led on the appropriate wire under the bonnet.
I used that for trouble shooting when first installed (front left sensor hadn’t seated properly so checked codes with light) but haven’t needed since.
then just connected the sensors to the abs unit and plumbed the brake lines to it ( removing the non sport proportioning valve as the abs unit itself does the proportioning on the ‘01) and it’s worked perfectly ever since.
Not a difficult job, just time consuming.
I have the tall angled MR shifter. Puts the lever nice and close to the wheel so don’t have to move my hand far from the 9-3 position on wheel to change gears. Turned the shift from stirring custard to a precise action. Admittedly I also put in stiffer engine mounts at same time, but since doing the shifter I haven’t missed a shift since, compared to half a dozen per track day before then. Also made selecting reverse a ‘every time’ thing rather than only getting it every 3rd time previously.
The msm comes with better shocks so you can upgrade the springs and run those.
I wouldn't try to use the msm turbo setup if you are in an emissions area. It's not a good turbo and had a terrible ecu. The plumbing is also unnecessarily complicated.
Do the brakes and suspension, add a rollbar, and concentrate on learning to drive it.
this. Unless the MSM is free, It's not worth the effort. I regret getting a MSM, if I had a do-over I'd just buy a regular NB and modify it. You will end up changing all the MSM stuff as you build the track car anyways.
this. Unless the MSM is free, It's not worth the effort. I regret getting a MSM, if I had a do-over I'd just buy a regular NB and modify it. You will end up changing all the MSM stuff as you build the track car anyways.
For a registered road car, the MSM's status as a factory turbo has benefits from an insurance POV. For dual-duty or simply road duty, this may have financial benefits depending on how far down the rabbit hole the mods are taken. For track this is not a consideration and normally the price premium of the MSM would make the NB a no-brainer unless, as you said, it came free/no premium. For ADM, the lsd is a plus, probably the only one.
:
Also, what Miataroadster shifter do you have? I've read that the regular height one actually increases the shift effort enough that you can find the gates more accurately. So was thinking I'd go that way if I used the 6MT, but very interested in your input.
Get the tall-angled MR SSK if you have a 6-speed Aisin gearbox
.
The short version is better than OEM but hard to get into reverse - the tall-angled SSK is MUCH easier to find reverse.
I bought the short SSK when it first came out despite Bill from MiataRoadster recommending me the tall-angled one instead.
I thought the tall-angled SSK looked weird.
6-months later I bought the tall-angled SSK because I hated the effort needed to engage reverse, and Bill was right, MUCH better for regular shifts and MUCH, MUCH easier to get into reverse.
To mask/hide the "weird-looking" tall-angled SSK chrome shaft I sheathed it in heatshrink which means it no longer stands out.
The MR tall-angled SSK will transform a shitty 6-speed Aisin gearbox into one that you can tolerate.
Get the tall-angled MR SSK if you have a 6-speed Aisin gearbox
The MR tall-angled SSK will transform a shitty 6-speed Aisin gearbox into one that you can tolerate.
Merely tolerable? Or actually a joy to shift? The 5MT is a joy to shift. If I can get close to that, great. If it's still a floppy experience where I'm not quite sure what gear I'm in, I think I'll just stay with the 5MT...
I've done the full MSM into an NA swap, minus the electronics and the 6 speed. I learned a lot, and had fun. And then I put an EFR on it, and it was lovely. And then I built a VVT motor, and turned the EFR up...
So, slippery slope. I put some value in not necessarily starting with the best of anything so that I felt OK learning, and not too bad if I fucked something up. There's certainly some value in going straight to the end result as well.
Also from experience, a 6 speed with MR shifter still isn't as nice as the 5, but it's nice @ 300whp to not fret exploding the 5er.
Take a look at my FS post and build thread to get an idea of my idea of comfort/power/reliability. I pretty much followed the MT formula for hardware (minus xida's) and then stopped short of rollbar, harness, etc.
. I made some lifelong friends along the way who happen to know a lot about modifying these little cars. I picked their brains, and came up with a plan....
Starting with the 1999 Chassis, I'm going to do the following:
- Keep 1999 Electrical and fuel systems
- Swap over the ABS system from the MSM and wire it in directly to work with the 1999's electric system.
- Press all new bushings into the MSM's control arms, add new comp motor mounts, and transfer the full subframes into the 1999.
- Also bring over the MSM's 4.1 LSD rear with axles and hubs
- Use the MSM long block with the 1999's coil pack and intake.
- Undecided on using the 5MT or the MSM's 6MT with MR shifter
- Piecemeal an FM Stage 1 kit. Sell off everything I don't need from these two cars to help fund it.
- Engine management, for now, will be a used Voodoo box that I picked up.
- Interior will be a mishmash of the best parts from both cars
- Exterior will get the full MSM treatment. I worked in paint prep department at a body shop briefly about 7 years ago. I painted a few cars. I wasn't a pro by any means, but I remember enough about how to do it that I'll just do an at-home paint job on the car. Leaning towards this blue color from the McLaren 600LT. I did the photo shoot for this article for R&T, and I've been thinking about that color for the past two years. Will it look like a professional, concourse quality paint job? Absolutely not. Will it be good enough for 24 year old car I mean to thrash? You betcha.
That's the plan for this winter/spring. Get the car ready for summer driving season in northern New England. Though i imagine that's just the start for the project.
I know the original post asked how to do this without spending a bunch more money. But I also subscribe to that philosophy of buy one cry once. No sense going to all this effort to end up with an MSM when I can spend the same amount of time, a bit more $$$, and end up with something far better.
12-31-2022, 01:16 AM
NB1+MSM Parts car: how would you merge them?
0
