collin

My wife and I are looking to get something like this. We have a car that can definitely pull it but I am curious if anyone on here has successfully pulled anything that's ~1200 lbs on the NA/NB chassis. I have stock suspension right now if it matters and am making about 210 to the wheels.




Thanks everyone! This isn't dire, I am just curious if it is possible. It could make for a fun weekend.

thebeerbaron

iTrader: (1)

You're thinking of pulling a 1200lb trailer with a 2400lb car that was never rated to tow anything? And you've made zero changes to the car that would help control that load?

You need your head examined.

collin

That's why i am asking. I am wondering if anyone has attempted it before. I understand there is suspension that goes into as well and that's why I ask. I think the weight of the car isn't super important though. People pull 7500-10000LB campers with 5000-6000LB trucks all the time.

SpartanSV

A 6000 lb truck could be rated to tow 10000 lbs. As mentioned, a Miata was rated by Mazda to tow zero lbs.

Whether it's been done or not is irrelevant. What you're proposing is negligent.

Bopop

The difference with those big trucks and trailers is that the trailers have brakes.
A good example is the UK ratings for Golf's.
Unbraked trailers the car is rated for 1650lbs, braked trailers is double at 3300lbs. That's on a car that weighs around 3300lbs.

I've done a lot of towing with a MK1 Ford Focus (2700lbs) with a 1000-1300lb enclosed unbraked trailer and it's been fine in terms of control and stopping ability.
For a Miata 1200lbs seems a bit on the high side, I would want to stay in the 800-1000lb range.

That assumes the trailer max will actually be 1200lbs, and not suffer weight creep from extra stuff piled into it for camping. You'll also want to drive very defensively, stay in slow lane and give massive gap to any car in front.

In terms of what it's "rated" to tow, that's all dictated by a legal team. That same Golf in North America is only rated for 1000lbs with the manual transmission, and 0lbs with the DSG. The DSG in europe is rated the exact same 3300lbs as the manual, and in certain configurations is actually rated to tow more than the manual.
Identical transmission in both cars but for whatever reason the rating is neutered in America.

thebeerbaron

iTrader: (1)

You're clearly not getting it.

This. 100% this.

Ugh, I knew the "Euro ratings" point would come up. It's not relevant to this discussion. The reason the Miata is not rated to tow anything is not that lawyers got involved - it's that it's a terrible platform with which to tow anything.

What @collin is not getting is that there are basic facts that make a Miata unsafe to tow 1200lbs. Whether people have gotten away with it or not is irrelevant. We're talking about a small car with a soft suspension, short wheelbase, and very low cargo capacity (GVWR - curb weight). There's a reason trucks that tow stuff have heavy springs, long wheel bases, and GVWRs that aren't exceeded by dropping two average-sized Americans into the front seats. You panic-stop in a 1/2-ton pickup towing at its rated limit and you're still going to have a brown-shorts moment. You panic-stop in a Miata being pushed by a travel trailer and what happens isn't going to be up to you. But the responsibility will be. Hopefully your insurance covers you and you can live with the consequences.

Bopop

I don't disagree with you, however many people tow small tire trailers with these cars that weigh a few hundred pounds. Where does it go from safe to unsafe in terms of weight?

I will disagree about Euro ratings being irrelevant, you can use them to get a general idea of what something can safely pull. There are cars with identical weight and wheelbase to a miata yet are rated to pull 1000lbs without brakes.

If OP has to ask about towing with a Miata then he's probably not a good candidate to tow with one. 1200lbs is too much for one but personally I'd be comfortable with 800lbs.

Roda

Opinions on whether it's a good idea or not aside, you wouldn't be the first...




This was guy from NE that showed up at FM Summer Camp in CO every year with one of those little teardrop trailers. First with an NA and later an NB. Neither were turbo, IIRC.

It can be done. Wouldn't be my choice. It's going to put a lot of stress on everything in a Miata, and they just weren't designed for it.

Scaxx

I've towed a few hundred pounds behind my LS car a couple of times on trips from WA to Laguna Seca with a small HF trailer. Totally doable. 1200 lb? Nah dawg.

TalkingPie

Regarding Euro ratings: you can't take them at face value when comparing how heavy you can tow in North America, even when comparing cars that are identical. The philosophies of how the trailers are balanced, and how you're expected to drive, differ. One of the car magazines did a write up on this a little while ago, but I couldn't find it during a quick search.

In Europe, small cars can tow relatively heavy trailers because the trailers are loaded with a relatively rear-biased center of gravity so as to give a modest tongue weight. This keeps the trailer from exceeding the car's rear gross axle weight rating. The down side is that this rearward center of gravity makes the trailer less stable, making it prone to swaying at higher speeds. In Europe they get around this by lowering the speed limit for cars towing trailers. In Germany you're not allowed to exceed 80 km/h (50 MPH) while towing, even on the unrestricted sections of the Autobahn.

In North America, trailers are set up with a more forward center of gravity, giving them more stability at speed - think of an arrowhead or the opposite of an air-cooled Porsche. You end up needing a beefier tow vehicle to deal with the resulting heavy tongue weight. This is why you see bro dudes merrily tearing down the highway at 85 MPH with their fifth wheel camper in tow.

Bringing this back to towing with a Miata: low GVWR, a flimsy, light unibody, short suspension travel, soft springs, and a short wheelbase all make me think it would be a really bad idea to tow more than a few hundred pounds at North American highway speeds, in addition to other reasons already mentioned.

Gee Emm

It is certainly doable, but weight and balance are the keys to success. I towed a HF trailer behind a non-turbo NB with a set of tyres, and big box of tools etc, at freeway speeds - no problem, though I was careful to leave plenty of space to the car ahead. Loaded, I could easily manoeuvre it around by picking up the hitch so the weight was quite low. That was because the heavy stuff went in the boot - the trolley jack, a couple of axle stands, etc. It still adds to GCM, but reduces the instability under brakes of a heavy trailer pushing against a towball.

1200lbs (500kg?) is probably doable for a vehicle double that weight, but I'd be very careful about monitoring weight and balance, and keeping speed down - that's like trying to stop a MX5 with with 50% greater weight on stock(?) brakes with the instability factor added, Doable, but not something I would do. The one thing that would be a must if the OP proceeds would be electric brakes on the trailer, even over-ride brakes would be a big help.

OptionXIII

I've used my Miata to tow some motorcycles and lightweight trailers at freeway speeds, but I would be hesitant to go much beyond this.

Will you have issues with normal driving? Not very likely. But in an emergency braking or such situation, it could go south quickly.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I love threads like this.

The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, what works in theory always works in practice.


Should you tow a 1,200 lb camper behind a Miata? Well, that's getting off into your matters of philosophy.


Can you tow a 1,200 lb camper behind a Miata? Sure. If the trailer has electric brakes (and the Miata is equipped with a brake controller), and the load is balanced to maybe 100-125 lbs tongue weight or so, and the Miata has a big radiator in it, and you keep the speeds low, you might not even die and take others on the road with you.

Would the Iowa State Police officer necessarily look at a Miata hauling a camper down the highway and think to themself "Yes, that's a perfectly reasonable configuration. I'm definitely not going to pull that fellow over and have a chat with them about the rated towing capacity of their vehicle"? I have no idea.

208fabrication

I did it in my 1,950lb miata kart at freeway speeds, up and down hills with zero problems. In June this year I will be towing a 4x8 enclosed trailer on Rocky Mountain Raceweek loaded with tools, spare drivetrain and everything else to be self sufficient for a week and 1,300 miles.

collin

Great insight from everyone, thank you! The thoughts I had were, I would not be doing this without better suspension, and brakes on top of my turbo already. My intentions would be 150 miles to the Ice Cream Cruise in Omaha and 900 miles to MATG. I definitely don't feel comfortable doing it on stock suspension or brakes.

x_25

Having pulled ~1300lb behind a honda fit (longer wheel base, otherwise similar size and weight to a miata) I would not reccomend it. This was with much stiffer than stock suspesion and it was still getting pushed around quite badly. I have pulled close to 2klbs with that car over short distances and to say it get hairy on hills is an understatment.

codrus

That's the other difference between a camper and a tire trailer -- wind loading. There's very little side area on the little tire trailers, so it doesn't get pushed around by the wind the way a camper does.

--Ian

ohnoitisnt

My utility trailer tows 400kg of my crap behind my mk1 just fine. wheels toolbox jack stands and consumables just about fit and you have to really be trying to upset it. You could brake mid corner and even like that it coped fine. Its a 4x3ft utility trailer with a 2ft deck height and i use it for trips to the track

edit: unbraked

208fabrication

Here is my turbo miata and 4'x4'x40" Raceweek trailer.

208fabrication