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Old 02-23-2009, 09:46 AM   #81
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One of these would look way better. We should look into getting a GB going.

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Old 02-23-2009, 10:14 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by deliverator View Post
One of these would look way better. We should look into getting a GB going.

I'm in. Do it live.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:35 AM   #83
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didn't we already talk about that vent and it was really expensive? I wouldn't mind a group buy on the Mini vents, assuming the price is right.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:07 AM   #84
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didn't we already talk about that vent and it was really expensive? I wouldn't mind a group buy on the Mini vents, assuming the price is right.
they're $400.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:13 AM   #85
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They sell the black door trim also. Looks alot cleaner IMO...
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:29 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
i think its a pretty safe bet that I'm going to have extreme cooling issues on the track...especially in the 100* tx summers.
You need more shrouding and extraction, not more air entering.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
You need more shrouding and extraction, not more air entering.
FM hood is in the garage and shrouding will go in when I make my splitter. I still think you under-estimate the cooling problems we face on the track.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:20 PM   #88
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Wouldn't making more holes in the nose just add to the already poor CoEf of drag? I realize that for autoX that might not be a big deal, but on a track car, it might. (Increases with the square of speed

Looking at the nose of the C6R posted earlier made me think. That car puts out far more than stock horsepower. The air intake at the front is relatively small (stock size), but the hood has an agressive extractor. It is also a very high spped car where reducing drag is important. Balancing airflow in and then out of the radiator should be the goal. Increasing air in will not necessarily improve cooling unless the air can flow effectively out. Are there any wind tunnel or other airflow studies on the Miata front end? I would suspect that air flow out of the engine compartment is not particularily efficient given the undertray and the engine taking up a fair percentage of the space behind the radiator.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:25 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I still think you under-estimate the cooling problems we face on the track.
I think a lot of people don't know how to improve the cooling system's ability to dump heat either.

For example, if you put a huge single electric fan on the radiator, similar to what m2cupcar runs, you're car would never ever ever ever ever overheat. Period.

Or if you shroud things as to duct the first few inches worth of the IC's heat away and from the other exchangers and shroud things properly, the front opening will be plenty big enough. Dr. Turbo I believe posted some good shrouding a while back.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:57 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I think a lot of people don't know how to improve the cooling system's ability to dump heat either.

For example, if you put a huge single electric fan on the radiator, similar to what m2cupcar runs, you're car would never ever ever ever ever overheat. Period.


Unless you were at the track, spun, stalled and the fluid insta-boiled.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:06 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I think a lot of people don't know how to improve the cooling system's ability to dump heat either.

For example, if you put a huge single electric fan on the radiator, similar to what m2cupcar runs, you're car would never ever ever ever ever overheat. Period.

Or if you shroud things as to duct the first few inches worth of the IC's heat away and from the other exchangers and shroud things properly, the front opening will be plenty big enough. Dr. Turbo I believe posted some good shrouding a while back.
I don't think a fan can move enough air to cool an engine at speed. The hood bulges from pressure at high-speeds...which tells me that we should focus on getting the air out, rather than adding fans.

I'm going to try making a little cup into my shrouding for the first 1/4 of the fmic...maybe this **** will work.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
need more pics.
If that red car is yours, I like yours.

This one needs to finish up the hole more...imo
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Unless you were at the track, spun, stalled and the fluid insta-boiled.
Right... Because the cooling system will instantly be overwhelmed even though the fan continues to pull a couple thousand CFM through the radiator, but I guess having a bigger opening in the front would be better when you're not moving forward or stalled....
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I don't think a fan can move enough air to cool an engine at speed. The hood bulges from pressure at high-speeds...which tells me that we should focus on getting the air out, rather than adding fans.

I'm going to try making a little cup into my shrouding for the first 1/4 of the fmic...maybe this **** will work.
I've seen fans work too many times to believe they won't work.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:57 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Right... Because the cooling system will instantly be overwhelmed even though the fan continues to pull a couple thousand CFM through the radiator, but I guess having a bigger opening in the front would be better when you're not moving forward or stalled....


Are the fans wired to always be on? Electric water pump? The fluid isn't moving in this situation even though the fans are blasting 1million cfm through the radiator. The fluid in the radiator can be ice cold but the fluid in the motor will be satans asscrack hot.

On an old track car I had, I used this same method. Giant shrouded pusher and puller fans on a koyo to cool the water, with no oil cooler. In this situation where the motor stalled on track you could hear the fluid boiling untill the motor was started again. Granted this has nothing to do with giant holes in your nose, but more about the problems with relying only on a giant fan.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:21 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Are the fans wired to always be on? Electric water pump? The fluid isn't moving in this situation even though the fans are blasting 1million cfm through the radiator. The fluid in the radiator can be ice cold but the fluid in the motor will be satans asscrack hot.

On an old track car I had, I used this same method. Giant shrouded pusher and puller fans on a koyo to cool the water, with no oil cooler. In this situation where the motor stalled on track you could hear the fluid boiling untill the motor was started again. Granted this has nothing to do with giant holes in your nose, but more about the problems with relying only on a giant fan.
Exactly. Has nothing to do with this discussion.

ASSUMING he's driving the car on a track and racing and the engine is running while doing so, producing power, and needing to reject heat, I would suggest a large electric fan would supply adequate airflow through the radiator as to maintain a high rate of heat rejection to keep coolant temperatures in a safe operating range. As a benefit, when he slows down or turns or gets in traffic, airflow through the radiator will remain much more constant allowing the cooling system to catch up vs. falling behind.

But really I'd address other things like shrouding and extraction before looking for more frontal area. IMO, more frontal are isn't the problem.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:34 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Exactly. Has nothing to do with this discussion.

ASSUMING he's driving the car on a track and racing and the engine is running while doing so, producing power, and needing to reject heat, I would suggest a large electric fan would supply adequate airflow through the radiator as to maintain a high rate of heat rejection to keep coolant temperatures in a safe operating range. As a benefit, when he slows down or turns or gets in traffic, airflow through the radiator will remain much more constant allowing the cooling system to catch up vs. falling behind.

But really I'd address other things like shrouding and extraction before looking for more frontal area. IMO, more frontal are isn't the problem.


It's relevant in that the gaping holes could be used to provide airflow to an oilcooler. If you have a big fan, a standard mouth mounted intercooler, and a big radiator your space for mounting an oilcooler is reduced.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:01 PM   #98
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Why does every professionally built racecar on earth rely on aero for cooling, not fans?
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:04 PM   #99
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Why does every professionally built racecar on earth rely on aero for cooling, not fans?
You're the one always talking about seeing cars overheat on a track.... Maybe they're doing something wrong? A race car street car. If your car was a race car you could chop up the front and tube it out, add a V-mount, some serious fender and hood extraction, and then you would only need a small fan for idling and cool down.
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