"Forced" Hydra 2.7 upgrade - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-2013, 06:18 PM   #21
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Marys GA.
Posts: 136
Total Cats: 3
Default

Yeah I'm done with the HYDRA it's getting removed soon. Now I have get another EMS for the MSM it would seem to me that there are two real options here and I have some experience with both.

option 1 AEM EMS-4 I helped a friend do a initial setup and tune on a subie the AEM software is super easy to use.

option 2 run a megasquirt 2 or 3 there is tons of support on the forum for MS setups. I have built a MSII before I built one for my truck (89 chevy c1500 w383/700r4) it worked great but I never tuned it past initial setup because my truck got broken into and they stole a 10 year old cd player, old 6x9's, edelbrock alum water pump, MSII, and some other things that were laying in the seat.

Anyhow Savington since you sell AEM EMS-4 have done an install and setup on a MSM or NB with a FMII at TSE? I'm looking to replace my HYDRA soon.
Lee04vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #22
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

We replaced a malfunctioning Hydra 2.7 with an EMS-4 last year, yes. I don't have a PnP harness available for it yet (we hand-built the harness for that particular car) but it is doable.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:24 PM   #23
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

There's a PNP EMS4 on your site, or am i just not savvy (haha see what i did there?) with the definition of PNP in that context?

Trackspeed Engineering
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:43 PM   #24
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Marys GA.
Posts: 136
Total Cats: 3
Default

I won't be driving my car again until mid april is a PNP harness in the works, I have a motor build coming some what soon I can wait until then and just do a custom engine harness ether way. If you get a PNP harness I might do the switch early.
Lee04vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:13 PM   #25
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
There's a PNP EMS4 on your site, or am i just not savvy (haha see what i did there?) with the definition of PNP in that context?

Trackspeed Engineering
I don't have one specific for the MSM yet. It's a completely unique adapter harness, so it's probably the last one we'll release.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:17 PM   #26
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Marys GA.
Posts: 136
Total Cats: 3
Default

How hard is it to adapt a NB harness to MSM I'm fairly crafty with a soldering iron?
Lee04vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:22 PM   #27
Destroyer of Inconel
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,642
Total Cats: 954
Default

I've seen in a thread on here somewhere where Stephanie, Reverant and (someone else) were talking about the MSM using the same header as the NB2, but its something like 4 wires change locations. So "sounds easy" but I can't find the post that outlines it, so I can't say. One of those folks or Sav would have a much better handle on that.

Quick google search turned up this: MSM ECU connector

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
Is it the same, physically, as the 99/00 ECU connector?

How about compared to the '01 ECU connector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
The connectors changed in 2001. The MSM has the later style.

Last edited by EO2K; 03-12-2013 at 07:37 PM.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #28
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Marys GA.
Posts: 136
Total Cats: 3
Default

Thats all I think it is is stuff moved around in the harness I might have both pin outs on my computer so I guess I might be able to answer my own question.
Lee04vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #29
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kamloops B.C.
Posts: 206
Total Cats: 24
Default I'm almost that stupid apparently !

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
If i'm this pissed now, think how shitty i'd be if i was actually the person that had actually purchased the EMS new and had it installed on my car. (Rhetorically of course, because i'm not actually dumb enough to buy one outright.)

I shudder to think that there's some poor ******* out there that bought 2.1, and have purchased every upgrade along the way, paying to have their **** retuned every time.

It's conceivable to think that someone has $8-$10k in this piece of **** EMS.


Good point though Sav. AEM or Haltech are on my short list for this particular car.
I bought my Hydra 2.6 new , my " free " upgrade to 2.7 after shipping from Canada and upgrade to "gamma" so I could have Vvt control that i already had with the 2.6 was just north of $500.00.
What pisses me off are the features I've paid for, twice in fact that still don't work. Can you say EBC ! This is despite it being advertised as being fixed , twice .
The complete lack of documentation is the other thing that I find completely unacceptable .
Jeremy has done a pretty good job supporting me with the Hydra but I don't want to have count on him . Give me complete documentation ! And I'll happily deal with it myself.
Hydra's manuals are a bad joke at best , there still isn't a finished manual available for the 2.7 . How a product like this could be released to the end users without a complete manual is beyond me.
I have no problem paying for new features or real upgrades but I think the features I've already paid for should work as billed. Is this too much to expect?
I'm really beginning to feel like an unpaid beta tester.
I can't afford to change ECUs this year , but if FM/hydra don't get the EBC working this spring ,I'm going the look hard at my options this next winter.
fredb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:17 PM   #30
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

I see that Leafy has informed Jeremy that at least the two of us have figured out how easy it is to make the 2.5 software work on Win7.

Quote:
Hi Owners,



Just about oh 5 minutes ago I discovered that all Hydra 2.1 – 2.5 – 2.6 softwares will install & open in Windows 7 if you install them in C:\Program Files\Nemesis, and NOT in C:\Program Files (x86)\Nemesis. From here I have opened the softwares & loaded in base maps. Full disclosure, I do not have any older ECUs here to see if they will connect, but a customer who gave us the tip says it’s good. Big thanks to Jon (aka “Leafy”) for the tip, I hadn’t thought to try this earlier although I have seen that x86 folder be a problem when installing other legacy software in W7.



We will continue to host Hydra’s legacy software, manuals & FM base maps after Hydra stops hosting them. That said, 2.7 really is a nicer platform.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:21 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Hehe. Yeah my room mate pointed out that he got that email on his iphone while we were watching top gear a little while ago.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:23 PM   #32
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I don't have one specific for the MSM yet. It's a completely unique adapter harness, so it's probably the last one we'll release.
Ah ok, i just saw MSM as an option on your site. Definitely let us know when it's ready to be released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee04vr View Post
Thats all I think it is is stuff moved around in the harness I might have both pin outs on my computer so I guess I might be able to answer my own question.
Probably... i know we hate talking about this sort of thing on this forum, but i adapt old FCON PNP harnesses from MKiii Supras and FC RX7s to work with MX6s. Not terribly hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredb View Post
I bought my Hydra 2.6 new , my " free " upgrade to 2.7 after shipping from Canada and upgrade to "gamma" so I could have Vvt control that i already had with the 2.6 was just north of $500.00.
What pisses me off are the features I've paid for, twice in fact that still don't work. Can you say EBC ! This is despite it being advertised as being fixed , twice .
The complete lack of documentation is the other thing that I find completely unacceptable .
Jeremy has done a pretty good job supporting me with the Hydra but I don't want to have count on him . Give me complete documentation ! And I'll happily deal with it myself.
Hydra's manuals are a bad joke at best , there still isn't a finished manual available for the 2.7 . How a product like this could be released to the end users without a complete manual is beyond me.
I have no problem paying for new features or real upgrades but I think the features I've already paid for should work as billed. Is this too much to expect?
I'm really beginning to feel like an unpaid beta tester.
I can't afford to change ECUs this year , but if FM/hydra don't get the EBC working this spring ,I'm going the look hard at my options this next winter.

"Unpaid beta tester" is exactly why i don't want to upgrade.

The whole "Well you have this capability on your current ECU, but we're going to make you pay again to unlock it" is utter bullshit.

This is a company that seems to stay in business by force-feeding Koolaid and then shitting all over their existing customer base.

The product has to be REALLY GOOD to get away with that, and the product is NOT really good.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Fred. :(

The pricing they charge for upgrades (Should just be updates/fix what didn't work before) is outrageous as well.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #33
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,460
Total Cats: 782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Hehe. Yeah my room mate pointed out that he got that email on his iphone while we were watching top gear a little while ago.
I was going to send him step by step instructions on how to do it last night, but i was shitty enough that it probably wouldn't have been a constructive email.

And i LIKE Jeremy. He's a nice guy. I like all the guys up there. I just ******* hate this garbage product.
concealer404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I was going to send him step by step instructions on how to do it last night, but i was shitty enough that it probably wouldn't have been a constructive email.

And i LIKE Jeremy. He's a nice guy. I like all the guys up there. I just ******* hate this garbage product.
They're kind of in a **** position. The Hydra was a pretty good unit at the time when FM first started selling it. And honestly their current business strategy was par for the course back then. Heck Motec still uses the same business model, but companies like Haltech have gotten away from it. AEM still advertises their ecus as having all features and maps already unlocked, a relic from a bygone era. They cant just drop support of it and stop selling it, because it'll alienate their current customer base even more, and they might even have a contract/agreement with Hydra. And what else would they pick up? Motec is too expensive, Haltech is almost as hateful to use, TSE is already doing an AEM EMS4 setup, plenty of people already do Squirts. No one is going to buy adaptronic. All the cosworth/mclaren/bosch choices are WAY WAY WAY too much money too.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:53 PM   #35
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kamloops B.C.
Posts: 206
Total Cats: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Ah ok, i just saw MSM as an option on your site. Definitely let us know when it's ready to be released!



Probably... i know we hate talking about this sort of thing on this forum, but i adapt old FCON PNP harnesses from MKiii Supras and FC RX7s to work with MX6s. Not terribly hard.




"Unpaid beta tester" is exactly why i don't want to upgrade.

The whole "Well you have this capability on your current ECU, but we're going to make you pay again to unlock it" is utter bullshit.

This is a company that seems to stay in business by force-feeding Koolaid and then shitting all over their existing customer base.

The product has to be REALLY GOOD to get away with that, and the product is NOT really good.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Fred. :(

The pricing they charge for upgrades (Should just be updates/fix what didn't work before) is outrageous as well.
To be fair the 2.7 version does work pretty well. I've got a reasonably good tune on now , drivability is good ( not OEM good but not bad at all )
My problems have been fairly minor compared to some folks :
Inconsistent starting ,eventually traced to sequential spark with a NA Cas
Cold start was becoming an issue last fall just before I put the car away for the winter . Jeremy's new cold start settings seem to have helped that.
Most of the things that have bit me in the *** , stem from my not understanding how a setting or map actually works because ....... Wait for it ....... There's no [email protected] MANUAL !
Next ,I'm about to go back to square #1 as I'm about to pull the motor to put in a built NB unit. Stay tuned .....

Last edited by fredb; 03-13-2013 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Poor grammar
fredb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:09 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,272
Total Cats: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
No one is going to buy adaptronic.
Why the Adaptronic hate? Apart from the shitty joints on the adapter boards (which are now a thing of the past anyway) they seem like a really decent unit. The Australian support is epic, not sure what it is like in the US though.

MoTeC have an offering similar in price to Haltech and the other big players, but the "optional extras" can make it quite expensive. The MoTeC features usually work fairly well and the logging is awesome.
timk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:20 PM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timk View Post
Why the Adaptronic hate? Apart from the shitty joints on the adapter boards (which are now a thing of the past anyway) they seem like a really decent unit. The Australian support is epic, not sure what it is like in the US though.

MoTeC have an offering similar in price to Haltech and the other big players, but the "optional extras" can make it quite expensive. The MoTeC features usually work fairly well and the logging is awesome.
In the states the cheapest I can find a new motec is $2600 when looking quickly M4.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:44 PM   #38
Junior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Gilbert, Az
Posts: 337
Total Cats: 26
Default

This is some painful stuff to read. Anytime anyone even mentions considering getting a Hydra I'm going to point out this thread. I can't understand why FM bothers with them anymore.

Once in awhile with the MS2 I'd get a touch cranky, feeling like things weren't quite well implemented. But 98% of the time it's been fairly flawless, and sounds like 100x the product the Hydra is at 1/5th the price (literally).
SJP0tato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:36 AM   #39
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 325
Total Cats: 20
Default

MS3 Pro looks like a good feature / price trade off and I know we have good ms3 support here. Could probably get close maps and let pro tuner get the rest of the way. 2.7 is hugely better if you are running high impedance injectors like ID. Logging over CAN is finally there.

Currently it is working well for me but the idiosyncrasies with the Hydra, insane cost and problems really make it a hard sell. They only with 2.7 implemented firmware flashes and basic features from. 1999 Motec or 2002 Haltech. With 2.6 I thought I had been transported to early days of EFI with all the problems that should not exist in a mature market product.
vtjballeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 05:05 AM   #40
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timk View Post
Why the Adaptronic hate? Apart from the shitty joints on the adapter boards (which are now a thing of the past anyway) they seem like a really decent unit. The Australian support is epic, not sure what it is like in the US though.
I've used Hydra 2.5/2.6, so when I say that WARI is the worst piece of tuning software I've ever used, it should really mean something.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
UEFI boot help needed mgeoffriau Gaming 38 03-02-2016 04:59 PM
Mazdaspeed 2.0L C-Spec ITB motor w/ accessories graexodus Miata parts for sale/trade 9 10-25-2015 04:34 PM
MS PNP requires reading and following directions??? satisfied MEGAsquirt 141 10-06-2015 11:44 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:28 PM.