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Old 01-01-2011, 08:55 PM   #21
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I noticed that trend.....thats why I havn't said a word until now lol!

But, I absolutely love my T2i....my next will be the 7D in a few years (or maybe the 5DmkIII when it comes out)
Canon makes good cameras, they are just so much different. Kind of like trying to sell a Mac to a life long PC guy. Menus seem foreign and backwards, and function buttons are strange. I couldn't do it even if I had the chance for the best deal ever.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:23 PM   #22
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Canon makes good cameras, they are just so much different. Kind of like trying to sell a Mac to a life long PC guy. Menus seem foreign and backwards, and function buttons are strange. I couldn't do it even if I had the chance for the best deal ever.
It'd be the same for me going to a Nikon now lol... For noobs I always say to go to the store and hold each camera, then buy which ever feels most at home in terms of ergonomics. Other then that, its pretty much a dead heat between Nikon and Canon. Sure each has some stronger points, but they're both excellent.......... but Canon's better
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:01 PM   #23
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fanboy or not, the bottom line is to get the camera you want to actually use.

if you want take it everywhere, get a canon s95. if you want to dick around with a DSLR, get the D5000.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:07 PM   #24
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It'd be the same for me going to a Nikon now lol... For noobs I always say to go to the store and hold each camera, then buy which ever feels most at home in terms of ergonomics. Other then that, its pretty much a dead heat between Nikon and Canon. Sure each has some stronger points, but they're both excellent.......... but Canon's better
Yep. Both are great, just depends on where you start. I don't know of many or any people that go between brands. Once you learn one cameras ways, you're typically stuck with it, so choose the one best for you.
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:45 PM   #25
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I have a Pentax K-x. It's been updated recently to the K-r.

My main complaint with the K-x is the low res screen (230k pixels), which is now 1 megapixel on the K-r.

It's a pretty good camera, with image stabilization built into the body vs into the lens. It has a magnesium chassis and feels very sturdy in the hand without being too heavy.

[ tangent ]
I'd like to also add something about "HD video".. Maybe the brand new cameras are better at it, but I'm not a fan of the 720p video my camera produces. It doesn't seem fluid, focusing is not good, overall just not a pleasant experience. I got my K-x for christmas last year.. In July, i bought a canon (hehe) HD camcorder for like $300 and it's friggin awesome.. Much more purpose built machine, haven't regretted having two dedicated devices at all!
[ end tangent ]

Part of what swayed me towards this camera vs the canon (and i've had nothing but canon prosumer cameras prior to this) is that these supposedly have superior low light capability, and the used lens market should be good, though i don't really see myself taking advantage anymore.

That brings me to the next point -- to second Braineack -- get the higher zoom lens out of the box.

With the pentax, you have a choice of just 18-55, 18-55 + 50-200, or 18-55 + 55-300.

I chose the 55-300 kit even though it was $100 more than the 50-200 kit. My reasoning was that 200mm is OK, but really isn't a super zoom, and you end up getting a $500 lens for like $200..
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:03 PM   #26
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I also have the Pentax K-x. I was looking @ the D3100 and the T1i before choosing the Pentax. The main reason, action photography. The Pentax low light performance, FPS 4.7 and chassis anti-shake (less expensive lenses) make it an inexpensive hobby DSLR that can crank out some nice pics.
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:17 AM   #27
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Pentax K-7 seems like a damn good camera, but it's even more foreign to me than Canon. Also not sure about the lens selection out there for a Pentax camera. They seem to lean more towards weather sealed components, for more outdoors shooting, which I like. Also seems well constructed, magnesium over SS chassis. Priced on par with a D90.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Not really. The old D300 in a lot of ways is inferior to the D90
O rly?

D300 has 51 AF points, D90 has 11.
D300 has 1005px RGB sensor for metering, D90 has 420.
D300 has 14bit image processing, D90 has 12bit.
D300 has less shutter lag (45ms) than D90 (65ms).
D300 has 100% frame coverage on the viewfinder, D90 has 96%.
D300 can do 8fps (I have the extra battery but can be done without it), D90 can do 4.5fps.
D300 has faster AF than D90.
D300 is weather sealed (I like taking pictures in the rain).

Both have the same image quality when using the same lens, settings etc.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:19 AM   #29
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O rly? Yes. All of those points are picky points except for the sealed body and 8fps. Not enough to warrant the extra $200 refurb D90 compared to used D300 (since it's no longer made). Every camera has weaknesses and strong points. I like what the D90 has vs what it does not have.

Just to save time I'll take this from KenRockwell.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's better on the D90 than the D3, better than the D700 and better than the D300:

Easier selection of advance modes, frame rates, remote control and self timer, especially in the dark.

Works with the superior $17 ML-L3 wireless remote release.

ADR is on by default.

Adds the AF-A AF mode.

Easier Live View mode with dedicated button! The other cameras use the rotary top switch, which sucks!

Makes movies with sound. The D3 at least records sound alone, which the D90 can't.

The AF Selector Lock is better designed so it won't get knocked by accident.

The Self Timer can make multiple exposures, helping ensure everyone's eyes are open in at least one of the shots.

Nikon finally fixed the design flaw where by default the Modeling Flash fired if you hit the Depth-of-Field preview button. Thank you Nikon!

The dials work during playback by default. In the other cameras, I have to look for a few minutes to find this option hiding in the Custom Settings > Controls > Customize Command Dials option.

By default, the D90 won't shoot without a card. The D3, D300 and D70 default to the very dangerous DEMO setting which lets you happily shoot an entire wedding, look at each shot on the LCD in every display mode and zoom setting, and not realizing until the end of the day that you had no card in the camera!



Better than the D3 and Better than the D300:

Can call up the top item in My Menu with the FUNC button. This makes the D90 much faster to use, because I now can get into the menus and set everything with just one hand!

Dedicated rear INFO button.

ADR modes include AUTO.

The rear LCD Monitor-on times are selectable separately for Playback, Menus, the INFO panel and Image Review.

The D90 has both the My Menu menu and Recent Items Menus. (D3 and D300 lack the Recent Items menu)



Better than the D300:

Far nicer rear multi selector. The D300 has a mushy single piece of crap, while the D3, D700 and D90 have much better two-piece controls with a separate center OK button.

ALSO:

What's missing compared to the D300, D700 and D3 (not much!)

No ability to program the center OK button to zoom-in full-size in playback.

No options for JPG optimization.

No selection of NEF/raw characteristics.

No Shooting and Custom Setting Banks.

11 versus 51 AF points. I didn't miss the extra 40, which are just in-between points.

No AF Area Mode switch; need to call this up in a menu (easy if you use the FUNC button to get to My Menu, and put this selection in My Menu.

No PC connector for studio flash. No big deal, I use the pop-up flash to trigger my studio strobes, or you can buy a hot-shoe to PC adapter.

Can't program the Preview button to do tricks.

No ability to use a custom prefix, like KEN_0123.JPG, for the file names.

No Mirror-up mode. This mode sucks in the D3, D700 and D300 anyway.

WB/ISO/QUAL buttons shared with other functions, but still easier to use than the hidden ones on the D3, whose locations date from the F5.

No option for seeing the Focus Point Selection in playback, but who cares?

No Intervalometer (automatic timed shooting).

Can't set ISO or exposure in full stops: ISO sets only in third stops, and exposure only in third or half stops.

No ability to change the focus and release priorities in the AF-S and AF-C modes.

No metering, finder read-out or EXIF data with manual-focus lenses. (buy a small light meter and a hot-shoe adapter if you can't use the LCD to guess exposure.)

No macho-man metal body, so the D90 weighs much less. The D90 has a metal lens mount.

Maximum sync speed fixed at 1/250. (The D3, D700 and D300 can be set from 1/60 ~ 1/320 FP.) All these camera allow setting the slowest sync in P and A modes to any speed as slow as 30 seconds.

No compatibility with Nikon's 1970s-inspired wireless transmitter.

No compatibility with Nikon's expensive (like $500) Image Authentication software.

No ability to Save/Load camera settings and Picture Controls to an SD card.

No AF fine tuning, which I never use, and for most people, just lets then screw up a good thing.

No RESET option in Easy Exposure Compensation.

Only uses SD, not professional CF cards. This matters because SD cards don't come in professional speed grades, like Lexar 300x and 233x and SanDisk Extreme IV, and because SD card readers aren't available in Firewire to support those speeds. This means that it takes too long to download photos in the large quantities shot by pros. This is too bad, because the D90 is up to pro needs in every other way.

No 4:5 professional aspect ratio, but only the D3 does this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any newer Nikon camera will be excellent either way, but to me the D90 is the best camera for the dollar Nikon makes or has made. $720 for a refurbished body is absolutely a steal for what you get compared to their high dollar cameras.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:31 AM   #30
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Dude, the pro-D90 list you posted is THE definition of picky points. Everything I mentioned determines how fast and how well the camere focuses, how accurate the exposure is, what you look through the viewfinder is what you actually shoot, etc. How are these things not important?
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #31
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
I'm pretty surprised that no one else mentioned the D300, you should really, really have a look at that one too. It is superior than all the other cameras mentioned so far. A used one in excellent condition can be had at the same price as a refurb D90 these days.

This is why:

Nikon D300s: Not Recommended top
Forget the old Nikon D300s. The newer D7000 costs less and is superior. Nikon still sells the old D300s for more money because it can, but don't you fall for it.
The D300s offers faster frame rates on paper for sports, but I find that the D7000 is still faster overall because it's newer and smarter. If you're a serious sports shooter, you should have a D3s instead.




And probably because Sam doesn't want a $2K camera?
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #33
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D300, not D300s. And I specifically said used on eBay (~$800), not new. The D7000, while superior to the D300, is very hard to find as it is out of stock almost everywhere.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #34
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I love the talk... somebody will search this thread sometime and get some great advice like I have. My purchase has been decided.

We cashed in 70k points on our USAA rewards card for a $500 Amazon gift card. The card should be here early next week. Gonna buy the D5000 w/18-55 refurb package deal from Adorama through Amazon. About $620 w/shipping... comes with bag, 8gb SD card, spare battery, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...sr=8-26&seller=

I went to the Navy Exchange and palmed a bunch of cameras and I could tell if I was going to have to live with one, I'd probably spend the extra $$ and get a bigger-body-more-features model. But for 99% of even my full on geek-mode shooting, the D5000 will be plenty. I've got 2 good friends who do semi-professional shooting as a side-job and are gonna school me up to an intermediate level.

At some point, I'm thinking a wide-angle lens or maybe a way longer zoom... probably be searching CL for a deal on used newer Tamron.

I'll post up some interesting shots if I take any and be glad for the critiques. First pic will be a close-up of my *******.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Dude, the pro-D90 list you posted is THE definition of picky points. Everything I mentioned determines how fast and how well the camere focuses, how accurate the exposure is, what you look through the viewfinder is what you actually shoot, etc. How are these things not important?
Yes but none of them would be really noticeably, even by a pro. 20ms shutter lag, not noticeable, 4% viewfinder size, basically not noticeable. Only one I really see that everyone would notice is the much faster 8fps shooting.

(If you shoot all day every day, you may notice all of these things, but your usual casual or enthusiast shooter will not really miss these things. I understand what you are saying though, I just don't feel those things are worth the extra $)

I hate to keep quoting Rockwell, but he seems to know his stuff and has already reviewed and written out everything Nikon, so it's hard not to. He said this at the opening of his D90 review.


"The Nikon D90 is a fantastic camera. It's Nikon's newest and best DX format DSLR. I prefer it to the old D300, which costs almost twice as much. That's the way it goes with digital cameras: new is almost always better, even for much less cost. The D90 has identical, or slightly better technical image quality than the D300, the exact same rear LCD, and adds several very useful ergonomic features for faster handling compared to the D300. These handling improvements will let you react faster to conditions, meaning you're more likely to get better pictures by being better prepared.

If you're considering a D300, forget it. Get the D90 instead."

Last edited by NA6C-Guy; 01-02-2011 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:38 PM   #36
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At some point, I'm thinking a wide-angle lens or maybe a way longer zoom... probably be searching CL for a deal on used newer Tamron.

I'll post up some interesting shots if I take any and be glad for the critiques. First pic will be a close-up of my *******.
You'll be happy with the D5000 I'm sure... I hope it's the 18-55 VR, since compared to the VR, the non VR is almost not usable.

Eww, Tamron... I would not suggest Tamron. Good prices, but you et what you pay for. Stick with either Nikon lenses, or if you must stray, Tokina makes some great stuff, some superior to Nikon in quality and optics.

What exactly do you want to shoot, or do you not really have an idea? I'd start with a decent long lens, the Nikon 55-200 VR is an excellent lens, and still cheap at only $220 new.

http://www.adorama.com/NK55200VRU.html

That covers the 18-200 range, and is all most people will need, since 18mm is already pretty wide. Anything wider than 18mm can practically be compensated for by stepping back and framing the shot differently. If you need wider, it will get a bit more expensive. You can get wider lenses with a faster f/ but you will lose lower light performance unless you use a tripod. My pick for an excellent wide lens is the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 ATX Pro, but it's a bit pricey at $600. I've heard and seen nothing but great things though, one very sharp lens.

http://www.adorama.com/TN1116NK.html

I'd also highly suggest a good low light lens. My choice was the Nikon 50mm 1.8D, which is a perfect little gem of a lens. Nikon's smallest and one of it's cheapest at only $120 new. Also one of their sharpest lenses. Lets in huge amounts of light compared to the kit lens at f/3.5

http://www.adorama.com/NK5018AFDU.ht...utm_term=Other

Whatever lenses you get, try not to overlap the focal length, since it would be a waste to get say a 18-200 AND a 55-200. You duplicate the 55-200 range of course. Here is the all mighty gods point of view on the ultimate selection of lenses.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/dx-dream-team.htm

I'd suggest the 50mm 1.8D over the 35mm version though. Or if you want to spend the extra money, the 50mm 1.4D which is still a bargain at $300 and lets even that much more light for even more amazing low light performance.

Last edited by NA6C-Guy; 01-02-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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