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Old 12-03-2009, 12:13 AM   #21
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Looks like the ******* deleted the raw data.
That is even worse than fudging it. I would call it a crime against humanity!
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:35 AM   #22
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Besides if global warming is not real - we can agree that fossil fuels are a finite resource and will eventually run out, it makes some logical long term sense for some diversification of energy sources.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:45 AM   #23
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naarleven,

As fossil fuels are depleted, their price will gradually go up. As the price goes up, alternate sources of energy will become price competitive, and investment will follow. Problem solved. (BTW the sharp rise in oil prices in 2008 was due to manipulation by the likes of Goldman Sachs, which can leverage money so much because of the government licensed monopoly known as the Federal Reserve.. and they can manipulate it for only so long... witness the sharp drop thereafter)

In the 70s, there was a political upheaval in Congo that caused the price of Cobalt to rocket. The speaker manufacturers were dependent on it for the alloy Alnico to make magnets. They scrambled to develop ferrite and neodynium based magnets, which are used til today.

A few years ago I was witness to a sharp shortage of epoxy for making semiconductors due a fire in one of the 2 factories in the world that made it. And a few years before that there was a serious shortage of parts called MOSFETs. We thought at work we were gonna have serious issues. We were able to work around the problems with hardly any disruption in our production output; alternate suppliers simply stepped in and got some new business.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:27 PM   #24
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i go away for a week and come back to this?

climate change contrarians are cherry picking phrases out of context from the documents and twisting them to their own agendas.

nowhere in the emails have they said anything about climate change being a hoax or that ALL data from EVERY sicentist involved is falsified. it's a couple guys and "internal office banter".

anyone with a job has at some point in time said "this XYZ has a problem with ABC and it sucks, but we will be selling it anyway". nevermind the fact that later you fixed the ABC and everything was fine.

presuming that some candid conversations about a mildly controversial issue are going to bring the whole climate change issue to its knees is far fetched.

and also, nuclear would be great if we could store the waste in your back yard.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #25
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Okay, so lets nuke iran, iraq, and anything that starts with i-r-a and then use the desolate wastelands, as a desolate wasteland.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:43 PM   #26
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Dr. Peter Venkman: Alice, I'm going to ask you a couple of standard questions, okay? Have you or any of your family been diagnosed schizophrenic? Mentally incompetant?
Librarian Alice: My uncle thought he was Saint Jerome.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'd call that a big yes. Uh, are you habitually using drugs? Stimulants? Alcohol?
Librarian Alice: No.
Dr. Peter Venkman: No, no. Just asking. Are you, Alice, menstruating right now?
Library Administrator: What's has that got to do with it?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Back off, man. I'm a scientist.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:45 PM   #27
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Dr. Peter Venkman: This is preposterous. I demand an explanation.
Dean Yeager: This university will no longer continue any funding for any of your group's activities.
Dr. Peter Venkman: But the kids love us!
Dean Yeager: Doctor... Venkman. The purpose of science is to serve mankind. You seem to regard science as some kind of dodge... or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist, Dr. Venkman!
Dr. Peter Venkman: I see.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:08 PM   #28
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In this thread you may deny the Holocaust.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:41 PM   #29
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y8s,

jeezus the emails are pretty clear in that the hockey stick bandied about was falsified. The hockey stick that was used by the IPCC to make recommendations. THEY EVEN DELETED THE GODDAM RAW DATA! Why are they hiding the raw data? How are we gonna know now if there even really was any warming (Oh, wait, the emails said "Hide the DECLINE"). Even THEY think temperatures were DECLINING! Out of context? Hmm, what decline?

Does that mean we should go and burn fossil fuel ***** nilly? No.

Does that mean that we shoudn't allow government bureaucrats to increase their power and taxation based on AGW? Yes.

There are many solutions to CO2 increases, and bureaucrats are NOT interested in those which are practical. Unfortunately these require Capitalism to work. These bureaucrats are only interested in solutions which increase their power andn control.

I am really puzzled why this huge deception by these scientists is so quickly dismissed by the pro AGW camp, like it is religion.

I guess this is the main point - IT IS NOT SCIENCE ANYMORE. It is religion.

FOLLOW THE MONEY. Increasing energy expenditures by forcing a move to more expensive energy sources, away from fossil fuel via taxation, will INCREASE THE MONEY STREAM, increasing the opportunity for profiteering. Big Business WANTS CO2 caps. Especially Goldman Sachs which will OWN the trading business. You know, the same GS that got bailed out by Paulson, because Paulson was ex GS, the same GS from which Geithner came, and the Treasury Sec under Bush.. the same GS as THIS ONE:

Inside The Great American Bubble Machine : Rolling Stone
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:44 PM   #30
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Hat tip to xturner

ClimateGate apologists' LITANY OF EXCUSES:
Their Charms Proved Irresistible | finem respice
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:50 PM   #31
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"...we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!"

my kind of thinking. ends justify the means ------!





smoking will kill you!
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:56 PM   #32
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This just in!!!!! "Trick" "hide the decline" and "load of garbage" in the proper "context" really means: "kittens" "puppies" and "all things good."

whoops, glad we cleared the up. my bad.
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:57 PM   #33
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whoops, I lost all my data since 1960. aw what a shame. oh well, lets go get Al Gore and GE rich while pwning your liberty!
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
ends justify the means ------!
^The leftist battle cry... and has been for decades. Except for the ------ part.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:04 PM   #35
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that's because they are afraid to offend the people that sustain their power!
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:06 PM   #36
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WHY ARE THE ******* NOT HAPPY WE'RE NOT FRYING ANYWAY?
Why do they prefer to get governments to divert billions of dollars towards taxes and more expensive sources of energy due to a non existent cause ?
Maybe they really just want more CENTRALIZATION of POWER.

In the late 80s a rich Fabian Socialist by the name of Heilbroner wrote that Socialism and central economic planning will NEVER outproduce Free Markets, and the way then for the bureaucrats to grow their control is to “get behind the ecology movement”.
Reflections: AFTER COMMUNISM : The New Yorker

His manifesto is why the Big Money got behind Big Enviro. The big money that has huge influence in scientific research, are the Tax Exempt Foundations, which are controlled by a certain faction of the elite:
Tax-exempt foundations - SourceWatch
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:10 PM   #37
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.


HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT THAT HATE SPEECH! This is not how we do it in Europe...USA.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:12 PM   #38
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HAHA maybe i was just taking it out of context.... no biggie, panic attack over.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Quote:
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish social justice, insure domestic handouts, provide for the entitled, provide the general welfare, and remove security of liberty to our citizens and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

^^^ Fixed that for you.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #40
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i guess Michael Crichton was right

anyone else read State of Fear?
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