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Old 12-16-2008, 11:38 AM   #201
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I still laugh everytime I see that avatar!!!!!!!!!!!! And he even has the group Santa Hat! LOL.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:42 AM   #202
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these should be helpful:

coolant flow - stock

coolant flow - rerouted


You need to remember, the only reason to reroute is to equalize the cooling effect between #1 and #4.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:48 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I expect that the picture of the engine still in the car is an older one, from before the turbo's feed was relocated from the thermostat housing to the side of the block.

You are correct.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:10 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
these should be helpful:

coolant flow - stock

coolant flow - rerouted


You need to remember, the only reason to reroute is to equalize the cooling effect between #1 and #4.
Actually since I keep coming back to post on this topic let me give you my point on the existing coolant reroutes (intake side).

Coolant rerouting via intake side is long. Because the limited amount of space in the miata engine bay most piping is rerouted under the intake manifold by the firewall then to the radiator. On cars with EGR systems the system looks complicated. On top of that coolant is rerouted down and then back up to the upper radiator port. I don't know what effect that will do to the water pump but I suspect that because of the additional coolant volume, water pumps will not last that long. Also, as to what I have seen to date, the existing coolant reroutes do not eliminate the mixing pipe and because of the larger recirculating process (additional pipes and hoses) they add additional points of failure. So the point is that maybe in a non-force inducted engine coolant reroute via intake side may be the best choice but on a turbo system making lots of power and engine rocking side to side those motor mounts and coolant pipe mounting points better be good, real good.

Last edited by Hyper with ADD; 12-16-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:23 PM   #205
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Im starting to hate this thread. Really........LMAO i just noticed Hypers new avatar aaahahahahahahah
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:27 PM   #206
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Im starting to hate this thread. Really........LMAO i just noticed Hypers new avatar aaahahahahahahah
lmfao, Merry Christmas from Homo Montana......
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:00 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
You need to remember, the only reason to reroute is to equalize the cooling effect between #1 and #4.
Several years ago with the stock setup I datalogged the temps of coolant exiting the t-stat vs. at the back of the head (entering the heater). At idle and low engine speeds, there was a huge disparity. So the capacity of the cooling system at low engine speeds (such as idling in traffic), is effectively greatly increased. It will help cure low speed overheating. At higher RPMs this effect is reduced but still there.

And, in the common reroute shown
http://boostedmiata.com/technical/co...ow-reroute.jpg
there will be very little flow through the oil warmer when the t-stat is closed, the opposite of the intended effect.
If you remove the connection to the front of the head totally, and simply connect the TB to the turby, there will always be flow.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:08 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Coolant rerouting via intake side is long. Because the limited amount of space in the miata engine bay most piping is rerouted under the intake manifold by the firewall then to the radiator. On cars with EGR systems the system looks complicated. On top of that coolant is rerouted down and then back up to the upper radiator port. I don't know what effect that will do to the water pump but I suspect that because of the additional coolant volume, water pumps will not last that long. Also, as to what I have seen to date, the existing coolant reroutes do not eliminate the mixing pipe and because of the larger recirculating process (additional pipes and hoses) they add additional points of failure. So the point is that maybe in a non-force inducted engine coolant reroute via intake side may be the best choice but on a turbo system making lots of power and engine rocking side to side those motor mounts and coolant pipe mounting points better be good, real good.


Do you think before you post? I have a degree in advertising and know more about fluid dynamics from reading the cover of a book once....

I'm going to sum up your post:

  1. Coolant rerouted from the back of the head is long
  2. Most reroute towards the passenger side (1 of 2 options)
  3. Cars equipped with EGRs may have space issues
  4. You're unsure what the extra capacity after the thermostat will do to the water pump
  5. Some reroutes don't remove the mixing manifold because it's complicated.
  6. Routing the coolant back to the radiator on the passenger side is better for N/A
  7. Engine rocking posses an issue
now to rebut:
  1. You're retarded
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:28 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Do you think before you post? I have a degree in advertising and know more about fluid dynamics from reading the cover of a book once....

I'm going to sum up your post:

  1. Coolant rerouted from the back of the head is long
  2. Most reroute towards the passenger side (1 of 2 options)
  3. Cars equipped with EGRs may have space issues
  4. You're unsure what the extra capacity after the thermostat will do to the water pump
  5. Some reroutes don't remove the mixing manifold because it's complicated.
  6. Routing the coolant back to the radiator on the passenger side is better for N/A
  7. Engine rocking posses an issue
now to rebut:
  1. You're retarded
Just answer me.

Who is your sponsor here? Who do you advertise for? And by the way, with the exception of the JR spacer comments in the link you posted here, Devoutch's; that reroute does not make any sense to me in my point of view. Show me facts, nor just comments. About the only thing you impressed me so far is with those charts you made, that’s it.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:34 PM   #210
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I have a bachelor's degree in advertising I have a company that advertises on this site
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:54 PM   #211
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I can see where some of this confusion arises. From the image you linked to earlier, it does appear that the lower (or inner) half of the thermostat housing is meant to be left in place and capped with a piece of flat plate, and the fitting from the TB housing to the thermostat housing, and from the thermostat housing, through the turbo to the mixing manifold, to be left in place. Specifically:

In such a configuration, coolant flow through the oil cooler would be compromised by the fact that coolant would be flowing out the front of the head into the thermostat housing, thus raising the pressure within the housing and resisting the flow of coolant in from the TB / cooler.


I would suggest that the illustration be changed as follows:


In this version, it is clear that the thermostat housing is to be removed entirely and capped directly at the block, and the coolant returning from the TB routed directly into the turbo and then to the mixing manifold. In this configuration, coolant will flow through the entire circuit at all times.

Additionally, I've illustrated a restriction placed in series between the head and the heater core. If you look at the 323 diagrams, you will note that the feed to the heater core is sourced from a relatively small fitting on the engine. The issue here is that if the heater core is fed from a relatively large diameter fitting, then even when the thermostat is open, a large volume of coolant will continue to flow through the heater core, bypassing the radiator. By inserting a restricted orifice into the line, one more closely approximates the 323 setup, where the heater core does not present a significant bypass opportunity.

On the 1.6, one could achieve the same result by feeding the heater core from the "cursed water plug", which would in turn eliminate the requirement for creating a new heater core feed fitting:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
now to rebut:
  1. You're retarded
Best rebuttal ever.

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Old 12-16-2008, 01:58 PM   #212
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i dont understand why all this great knowledge is being completely wasted on someone whos main objective is to continually convince themselves that they are right and all of us are wrong.

Its like trying to burn ants with a magnifying glass only your trying to do indoors. with a flourescent bulb.

When can we delegate this thread soley to fail pics, and pure witty insults and the like?

Last edited by leatherface24; 12-16-2008 at 02:00 PM. Reason: I spelled a word wrong....again
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:03 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
In such a configuration, coolant flow through the oil cooler would be compromised by the fact that coolant would be flowing out the front of the head into the thermostat housing, thus raising the pressure within the housing and resisting the flow of coolant in from the TB / cooler.

Makes a lot of sense. I always like doing things the easy way, so a block off plate was easier than removing the cams and fitting a plug. Remember, I don't even have an oil cooler or TB lines or a water cooled turbo

I'd suspect an easier solution would be running the TB outlet directly into the water pump, and source the turbo inlet off the block.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:26 PM   #214
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here I updated:

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Old 12-16-2008, 02:31 PM   #215
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The picture Joe shows is the way I have done several, except that I don't put in the restrictor to the heater core and I move the thermostat into the line going back to the radiator so that it is accessable.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:34 PM   #216
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hhhhhhhhhhahahahhahahahaha the avatar again aahahahahahahha
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:36 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Makes a lot of sense. I always like doing things the easy way, so a block off plate was easier than removing the cams and fitting a plug. Remember, I don't even have an oil cooler or TB lines or a water cooled turbo

I'd suspect an easier solution would be running the TB outlet directly into the water pump, and source the turbo inlet off the block.
Hmm. My turbo isn't water-cooled either, but my TB and oil cooler are.

You wouldn't need to remove the cams to do this, but it might be necessary to remove the cam gears in order to remove the metal backing plate behind them which forms the upper rear portion of the timing belt case.

To avoid that, one could simply leave the TB housing in place and plug the nipple on the bottom, then just route the lines around it. Functionally equivalent to what I posted earlier.

I find myself going back and forth on the best location to source water for the turbo as well as the oil cooler / TB. The coolest water in the engine is to be found at the thermostat outlet. So if one wanted to super-cool the turbo, that would be the place to take it from. The outlet on the intake manifold of the 1.6 is a very close second, as the water there hasn't yet traveled through the majority of the engine. And of course a lot of folks don't have the water outlet on the hot side of the block.

On the other hand, sourcing the water from the back of the head will provide you with a hotter source, but it will also cause greater circulation through the engine when the thermostat is closed, particularly if the heater core feed is restricted as per my markup. On a 1.6, this is the only bypass when the thermostat is closed. I'm really liking Shaikh's oil thermostat.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:44 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Just answer me.

Who is your sponsor here? Who do you advertise for? And by the way, with the exception of the JR spacer comments in the link you posted here, Devoutch's; that reroute does not make any sense to me in my point of view. Show me facts, nor just comments. About the only thing you impressed me so far is with those charts you made, thatís it.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:03 PM   #219
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:07 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Just answer me.
He did answer you. You're retarded. There's a fact for you. Stop sipping lead paint lattes and do a little research on fluid flow dynamics.
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