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Old 10-22-2009, 12:07 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by inferno94 View Post
But where did people originate, "natural habitat".
irrelevant I'd say. some animals are nocturnal. and they/we adapt relatively easy to varying waking hours. hell, my cats sleep all day AND night.

before artificial light, people didn't likely do much after dark and now look at all the crap we do because we can stay up later.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:32 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
Which literal interpretation would you use. The bible is chocked full of contradictions. My favorite question to ask bible thumpers is how many of each animal were taken onto the ark (since everyone has heard that story). I love the blank stare they give you when you tell them there were SEVEN (well, SIX plus ONE to sacrifice) and not TWO. I've found that most Christians don't read the bible either <G>.

As far as stoning of non-Christians, the bible also says you should be stoned to death for working on Sunday. It will be interesting when we start that practice again. Wonder what would happen if you used that in court as an excuse for murder. I'm currently serving (have almost finished up my first year - hopefully will not have to serve the second year) on my county's grand jury. They make it quite a big deal if you put the wrong hand on the bible when they swear you in. I doubt they would agree if people actually started following what it says in that book.
Not to be argumentative, but for accuracy, I think you need to check your own research. Genesis 7:2 had a dual instruction. Indeed it did say that Noah should take 7 of every CLEAN animal, but it then said that they should take 2 of every unclean animal. So technically, both aswers are correct and incorrect at the same time.

Also, many people attack Christianity for the Mosaic law code. However, theologically speaking, no Christian is still bound by Mosaic law. Jesus' sacrifice was the beginning of a new law covenant with mankind that effectively ended the burden of Mosaic law. Romans 10:4 states that Jesus was "the end of the law".

Honestly, my faith is very important to me. I was raised a devout Christian, went through a phase of "you have got to be kidding me" and got away from it, then found myself drawn back in by my own accord many years later. Never been happier now that I have invited God back into my life.

YMMV, but it works for me.
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Old 10-22-2009, 02:51 PM   #103
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Trent, Bravo.

A well spoken statement of faith that does not fall into the church lingo trap. People don't realize how church speak alienates people outside of the church. I hate it when Joe Blow suddenly sounds like he's channeling Pat Robertson.
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Old 10-22-2009, 03:20 PM   #104
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O mighty Lord Satan,
God of this world,
God of my flesh,
God of my mind,
God of my innermost Will!

Every part of this world is within Your power.
You are within every part of this world.
Every part of me is within Your power.
You are within every part of me.

I am Yours, whether I serve You willingly or not,
for I am myself, whether I am true to myself or not.

Of my own free will, I now acknowledge Your power.
Of my own free will, I now present myself to You.
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Old 10-22-2009, 03:50 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
O mighty Lord Satan,
God of this world,
God of my flesh,
God of my mind,
God of my innermost Will!

Every part of this world is within Your power.
You are within every part of this world.
Every part of me is within Your power.
You are within every part of me.

I am Yours, whether I serve You willingly or not,
for I am myself, whether I am true to myself or not.

Of my own free will, I now acknowledge Your power.
Of my own free will, I now present myself to You.
Aren't those the lyrics to the opening song on Pokemon?


EDIT: I don't really care if not a single one of you finds that funny, because I am seriously LMAO about that.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:03 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Trent View Post
Not to be argumentative, but for accuracy, I think you need to check your own research. Genesis 7:2 had a dual instruction. Indeed it did say that Noah should take 7 of every CLEAN animal, but it then said that they should take 2 of every unclean animal. So technically, both aswers are correct and incorrect at the same time.

Also, many people attack Christianity for the Mosaic law code. However, theologically speaking, no Christian is still bound by Mosaic law. Jesus' sacrifice was the beginning of a new law covenant with mankind that effectively ended the burden of Mosaic law. Romans 10:4 states that Jesus was "the end of the law".

Honestly, my faith is very important to me. I was raised a devout Christian, went through a phase of "you have got to be kidding me" and got away from it, then found myself drawn back in by my own accord many years later. Never been happier now that I have invited God back into my life.

YMMV, but it works for me.
Same story for me as well. I made my confirmation at 16 and didn't go to church for 5 years after that. Finding my way back to God has been the best thing I have ever done.

To the OP. We all have that void that you speak of. I still feel that emptiness from time to time. What works best for me is to pray for wisdom and guidance. If you slow down and take the time to listen, God will give you the answers to your questions.

FWIW, I am person who thinks outside of the box very often. I try to put aside all the typical day to day bullshit that we as people get caught up in i.e. work, political issues, wars, mortgages, etc. Even the petty things, like which car do I want to buy next or what other material object am I going to put my focus into (I am often guilty of this). There are so many questions I have about the universe, our origins, etc. These questions have puzzled me for as long as I can remember. I truly believe that the answers to these questions are more complex than any living human was designed to understand. I believe that they will be answered when we leave this plane of existence and are in position where we will be able to understand fully. It is human nature to question and wonder.

Everything as we know it is a complexly designed system. There is no way that everything that has come to be was by accident or result of a "Big Bang". To be blunt, the fact that a man can stick his dick into a woman, spray some magical liquid, and create another person is truly a miraculous design. It is no accident or coincidence. Humans, animals, plants, the cycles of the planets, etc. are all intricately designed systems not coincidences. People say those who cannot comprehend use religion as their means for an answer, well I think it is the other way around, people who believe that all this was just an accident or coincidence are ignorant.

Life is meant to be full of trials and hardships. We all die, suffer, and go through hardships because we all live in sin. There is not one person in this world that doesn't sin. This is taught in Christianity. God has a plan for all us. We are all here for one reason or another.

To the moderator who said that he is now an atheist because his family put his sick relative (rather than caring for him) in the hands of God is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. If we as humans put all of our responsibilities and tasks into God's hands, we would have nothing but a bunch of lazy slugs that didn't do ****. Christianity teaches us to perform the tasks that Jesus did. Therefore, we are supposed to guide, defend, heal, nourish, etc. Maybe not the same sense that Jesus did (he was the Son of God after all), but that doesn't mean we can't perform these tasks by other means. This doesn't mean that if you can't cure someone from illness or injury by touching them that you just turn your back on them.

We have to work for and earn out spot in Heaven by following God’s laws and acting like Jesus did. WWJD wasn’t just a catchy gimmick. It is also taught that there are things in life to be enjoyed. God doesn’t want people to be miserable. He does want us to enjoy life; under His guidelines of course. If we just did whatever we enjoyed, then the world would be complete chaos.

Anyways, as much as I struggle with this void, the only thing that fills it is knowing that one day I will leave this plane and be with God. I will be reunited with family and friends. All of the answers to my questions will be answered. I will not have to endure hardships any longer. I will not have to worry about money, my job, my cars, the government bullshit, etc. Nothing of that nature will matter. There are temporary fixes for this void in other things, but the novelty always wears off and the void keeps on existing.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:15 PM   #107
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Truly, for many on this forum, putting their ***** into a woman would indeed be a miracle.



Seriously though, I understand what you are saying. Revelation 21:3,4 is such a beautiful thought.

My personal journey was a complicated one since I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. I rebelled against it in my teens and early twenties, and for whatever reason (not family, I can honestly say that) came back to it all these years later. I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be, but I enjoy my faith now. I was baptized in August.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:21 PM   #108
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here's evolution in a nutshell:

two apples from two similar apple trees are sitting on a table. both are absolutely apples. one looks at tastes like feces and the other is delicious and red. which species do you want?

clearly you take the delicious red one and eat it. then you poop its seeds out somewhere they will grow.

you have just helped the pretty declious apple perservere and the other one will not continue on. the apple has evolved.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:31 PM   #109
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I don't know much about the JW faith, but it must be tough to remain true to the beliefs given that society is overrun with things the JW faith doesn't permit. Not celebrating birthday's must have sucked a bit as a kid. I find this brand of Christianity to be very interesting.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I don't know much about the JW faith, but it must be tough to remain true to the beliefs given that society is overrun with things the JW faith doesn't permit. Not celebrating birthday's must have sucked a bit as a kid. I find this brand of Christianity to be very interesting.
It's always been kinda funny to me that no one knows a lot about us even though most of us won't shut up about our faith. lol. I am glad that you recognize (correctly) that we are Christians though. Jesus plays a huge role in our religion. You would be surprised how many people I run into who don't think we believe in Jesus at all.

You're right, a lot of things in our society are not geared toward JWs (or any brand of Christianity, if you take a broader view), that is true. But you know what? Honestly, it wasn't even a deal growing up. We used to have little parties and stuff all the time with the other kids in the congregation. I can honestly say, at no time in my childhood did I feel shortchanged.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:12 PM   #111
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I come from a recovering JW family. I've never been a happier person since I realized it was bullshit. My family is doing better these days, too.

By time I was 13 and actually able of cognitive thought, I considered myself an agnostic. I'm moving closer and closer to atheist these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I don't know much about the JW faith, but it must be tough to remain true to the beliefs given that society is overrun with things the JW faith doesn't permit. Not celebrating birthday's must have sucked a bit as a kid. I find this brand of Christianity to be very interesting.
It's almost the defining fact. The oppression empowers them.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:26 PM   #112
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well, YMMV.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:19 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, Judiasm, etc. Every last one believes they have the only answers. Huge turn off to most people. One of the reasons there is a significant rebellion against organized religion.

Very sorry to come in so late, but life has been pretty hectic lately. I hate to quibble, but IIRC, and I think I do, only Judaism, Christianity, and Islam believe they have it right, the rest don't make that claim, at all. I am by no means an expert, but I could have had a minor in Religion, just failed to take one more class and do the paperwork... Oh, and a few other hopefully entertaining tangents... Buddhism is NOT worshiping Buddha, he only shows you 'The Way', that's it. Back to JC&I; all three believe that the other two have some things correct. Judaism is the father of Christianity, I think we all know that. What a lot of folks do not know is that Islam has it's roots in Judaism. It also believes that Jesus was a prophet, which is interesting. There's lots of interesting stuff on prophetofdoom on Islam, but it could be argued to be slanted since it's writer began his research after 9/11.


As for matters of faith, I will post up more here in a few minutes.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:40 PM   #114
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We'll guys,
Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
You know this thread was going OK. Toddcod and Zoomin jump in with very religious statements, preachy, mention healing, etc and the whole tone of the thread changed. Suddenly the haters come out to balance and counterpoint those statements. Unfortunately where religion is involved any counterpoints can only be seen as insulting.

Again, seeing Toddcod & Zoomin's statements have only reinforced my belief it is OK to have faith but the dogma and trappings of organized religion sucks.

Politics and religion are both futile to discuss on an open forum like this. No minds will be changed, people only dig in harder.


The beautiful thing about this country is Freedom of Religion.

If you don't want to believe in god. That is your choice.

I think it is funny that, some can bash god and make mocking and intentionally terrible statments.

We don't say nothing back to the few.

But we make a statement about our belief and our experiances, we are preaching.
And ruint the thread.

But all the bashing people haven't. It isn't their faults, only the christians.

When it comes down to it. Speak your belief's. But don't be hateful or mocking to others.

And as far as me and zoomin. I haven't seen where we have mocked anyone's beliefs, or made any potentially hurtful remarks.

BUT WE ARE THE BAD GUYS!

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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Again, seeing Toddcod & Zoomin's statements have only reinforced my belief it is OK to have faith but the dogma and trappings of organized religion sucks.
Sounds like preaching. ^^^. LOL

Everyone's beliefs are theirs, and hard to change.

But people need to look at the whole ball game of exchanged words.

I don't hate on Athiest, but athiest are always hating on me. Do I let it make me mad, no. The same respect should be given to everyone. I'm sure there are at least one of every religon on here. I don't bash them because they believe different.


If you don't believe in god. that is your choice. Just think we are retarted and let it be.

We both have the freedom and right to believe what we want.

If someone believe's different, hate doesn't win people over to your way of thinking. Kindness does. And if they don't come around, it is their choice and right.

Have a good day!

Last edited by Toddcod; 10-22-2009 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:48 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
And the idea that god intervenes on an individual basis is against the whole idea of free will, which according to most people with religious faith is the key gift their god gave them.
How does that argument work?



Quote:
Originally Posted by NA6C
I think I would be more accepting to Christianity if they would update their **** so that it actually made sense in the 21st century. I understand a lot of it is universal, but also a lot of it doesn't work in the modern world. Same goes for our constitution, but thats another can of worms. Something that inflexible just doesn't make sense over time.
Updating it would/could be a severe issue, esp. if you did it wrong, especially if you actually believed what you were updating. You can't modify the 'word of God'. What if we tried to understand the Bible on the terms of what it was like in -their- day? For me, that has been the key. I used to feel the same way, but since I have a keen interest in etymology, I have grown to accept the idea that we have to break the Bible down, word by word, from Greek, and make it English. Not easy, but very well worth it.



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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Only someone religious would not perceive this as "preachy". It is full of church jargon. You would never use the phrasing and terminology in these statements in every day life outside of a church setting.

Ummm, I think he just did.


Seriously, I can understand the irritation, but I think you would do better to understand the impetus behind what he wrote, and not focus on the semantics.


Okay, my faith... Well, I have always believed in God. Raised Episcopalian, but never confirmed. I have always spoken with God, but it is not until the last few years that I have -really- prayed, I mean really put my heart on the line. I am no Bible scholar, but somewhere it says something like, the more you walk towards God, the more He walks toward you. My understanding of that paraphrased verse is, the more heart you put into it, the more you will get back. And speaking from my experience, the more heart I put into it, the more I have received, X2.


As for faith, that is a decision you make. Sometimes you regret or question it, sometimes you don't, it's just like others have said. Only thing I can offer different is that the best things in life come through commitment; if you make a decision, you will have much more to show for it if you stay committed to it. I would also offer that you are short-changing yourself if you decide not to commit because you find one, or a few flaws. Do you have many friends? I will bet that you keep them, despite their short-comings. I know that the girl I am dating has many flaws, but I absolutely know she is one of the most wonderful people I know. If I decided to not deal with her because of her flaws, I would surely miss out. What's more, what does that say about me? That I am perfect? I think you get the idea.


For those that have posted that they are agnostics/atheists; make certain you do not make that choice because of others inability to do it right (me included). While I won't starve a child because I know they will be fed by God, I can, and DO make mistakes. One individuals inability to make the right choice(s) does not completely invalidate their approach to God, only their understanding of it, or Him. Surely even David Koresh had a few things right, not including his idea that the ATF would not attack.


Now that I have made it clear that I am a Christian, feel free to criticize me for not following the tenets it sets forth; just be certain to have your insurance up to date on your glass house.

Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 10-22-2009 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:54 PM   #116
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Delete please, updated post above.

Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 10-22-2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason: I R Suxors
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:57 PM   #117
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Deleted...

Last edited by fahrvergnugen; 10-22-2009 at 10:02 PM. Reason: I still R Suxors
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:17 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
Updating it would/could be a severe issue, esp. if you did it wrong, especially if you actually believed what you were updating. You can't modify the 'word of God'. What if we tried to understand the Bible on the terms of what it was like in -their- day? For me, that has been the key. I used to feel the same way, but since I have a keen interest in etymology, I have grown to accept the idea that we have to break the Bible down, word by word, from Greek, and make it English. Not easy, but very well worth it.
Thats the issue though, I don't know any Christians personally that do. You can't expect a text 1600-1800 years old to work with modern day life. I guess its different for people who view it as the "word of god", even though it was written by a bunch of guys over a hundred years after Jesus lived, if not longer.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:33 PM   #119
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You buy into it, or you don't. Ultimately, it gets that simple.

As for me, I don't know many folks that do either, I tend to get most of my understanding from religious radio. In my job, I do a lot of driving (inspecting extinguishers and fire suppression systems in restaurant hoods), and sometimes I have a lot of time on my hands. I started listening to religious radio, and it has -really- helped me when I was down. There have been a number of times that a given upset at the moment was being covered on the radio as soon as I turned it on! No proof of nothing, just my experiences here. In fact, I believe the station I listen to is on the internet, Bott Radio Network ( I know, stupid name, I believe it is the owners' last name). They have a number of good preachers on there, Alistair Begg is very good, also from Scotland, and Chuck Swindoll are some of my favorites. Both of them do a very good job of trying to explain what is at work in a given bit of text, and surprisingly, sometimes it could take a whole show for them to explain one verse. It can be tedious if you look at it that way, but what if it was indeed the truth?

If nothing else, it can just be an interesting history lesson.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:42 PM   #120
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For those that have posted that they are agnostics/atheists; make certain you do not make that choice because of others inability to do it right (me included). While I won't starve a child because I know they will be fed by God, I can, and DO make mistakes. One individuals inability to make the right choice(s) does not completely invalidate their approach to God, only their understanding of it, or Him. Surely even David Koresh had a few things right, not including his idea that the ATF would not attack.

Nope, came to that decision all on my own. That's one of the reasons I'm especially proud of it. I wasn't "raised" to be a certain way, in fact my parents are christians. I don't understand it when I hear someone say they believe something because they were "raised _______". What, no mind of your own? What you say is true though, so many don't take action on things because "god will handle it". That's not the reason I don't believe though, I simply don't believe in god the same way others don't believe in Santa Claus. The two both bring happiness and morality to those who believe in them and that's fine. I only push back when someone who does believe either tries to push their beliefs on me, disprove scientific fact with religious arguments, or otherwise influence my life for the worse.
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