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Old 03-16-2008, 01:28 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by PaKMaN View Post
Way too much drama in the miata world.
No wonder people think a Miata is a gay man's car. There are a bunch of 'Drama Queens' driving them.

Nevermind that I know a gay guy (not me, I'm married with kid) that owned one for awhile.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:44 PM   #42
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A good load bearing dyno starts at about $45k. What people don't understand is that the shop doesn't pay for the dyno; its customers do. Why ask for things that unnecessarily add cost to the end user?
I agree. As we do not charge for the tuning, 99% of the time....
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:44 PM   #43
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I think the correction factor was very optimistic, Miata forums appear to be far more dramatic than most other forums I've been on, I don't remember Steph behaving unprofessionally on a forum, but I don't read every thread, let the bench racers remain on the bench, they'd be more dangerous on any track.
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:44 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by soflarick View Post
I think the correction factor was very optimistic, Miata forums appear to be far more dramatic than most other forums I've been on, I don't remember Steph behaving unprofessionally on a forum, but I don't read every thread, let the bench racers remain on the bench, they'd be more dangerous on any track.
It really doesn't matter. FM can spout their numbers to their heart's content, it really doesn't change the fact that the parts they are shipping look like crap. I mean, really now... It goes to show that you can make good power with crappy components. I just don't know if I would want to open my hood to "show off" my FM kit with it's flaking paint and it's lowest bidder parts.

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages...uality_vs.html

Mark
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Markp View Post
It really doesn't matter. FM can spout their numbers to their heart's content, it really doesn't change the fact that the parts they are shipping look like crap. I mean, really now... It goes to show that you can make good power with crappy components. I just don't know if I would want to open my hood to "show off" my FM kit with it's flaking paint and it's lowest bidder parts.

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages...uality_vs.html

Mark
Umm it's easy to compare brand new stuff (in a white background) with dusty and uncleaned stuff. And it's easy to make mig weld look like crap when you show tig welds. Altough I don't know you made theses tig welds (the fist 2, the third is really good), but for myself, they are horrible. Even painted! And god knows paint (or powdercoat) is pretty useful at masking ugly welds....
The only thing I could give you is that the use of mig is not the best thing.

Compare apple with apple...

my 0.02

(Oh god, I will be flamed for all this but I assume it 100%)
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Dark Wanderer View Post
Umm it's easy to compare brand new stuff (in a white background) with dusty and uncleaned stuff. And it's easy to make mig weld look like crap when you show tig welds. Altough I don't know you made theses tig welds (the fist 2, the third is really good), but for myself, they are horrible. Even painted! And god knows paint (or powdercoat) is pretty useful at masking ugly welds....
The only thing I could give you is that the use of mig is not the best thing.

Compare apple with apple...

my 0.02

(Oh god, I will be flamed for all this but I assume it 100%)
Actually those were new parts shipped directly from FM to BEGi from what I understood. (Stephanie knows for sure, but that's what I remember from our conversation.)

The tig welds you are complaining about are on mild steel, which I will agree are not perfect but they are better than the MIG welds on the other parts. Mild steel really isn't the best medium for tig welds. You'll notice that the TIG stainless welds look better and the Aluminum looks the best.

The people who weld at BEGi vary in their skill, some are better than others. Even the worst welds coming out of BEGi look better than anything being delivered currently from FM.

I'm not going to flame you for your opinion, but I have seen the new parts from FM and parts from BEGi side by side and the BEGi parts for the most part are nicer (I can't think of any exceptions except perhaps the silicone hoses which look nicer than the painted but more durable mild steel piping.)

Let's take a look at the two welds though. Apples to Apples. (I grabbed the worst BEGi picture to be "fair". As you wouldn't want to compare stainless to stainless.)

1. The BEGI weld on the mild steel part isn't "pretty", I will grant you that.
2. The FM part has significant defects, porosity in the weld area.
3. The FM part does not have anything that resembles a bead.
4. The Concave "bead" is a weld defect in itself.
5. The FM part has significant splatter.

One of these two welds is "acceptable" and the other is "flawed".




For the record, here is what a BEGi stainless weld typically looks like.



Mark

Last edited by Markp; 03-16-2008 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Markp View Post
Wow, is that really FM? Looks more like JIM-B
For the record, I MIG better than that.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:29 PM   #48
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Wow, is that really FM? Looks more like JIM-B
For the record, I MIG better than that.
Ya, that's a real FM part. It works, don't get me wrong... I just wouldn't be too proud of it.

Mark
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:57 PM   #49
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ok I understand, if that is, my post is now completly out of point and useless


May be I should send my CV to FM... I weld SS pipe everyday
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:24 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dark Wanderer View Post
ok I understand, if that is, my post is now completly out of point and useless


May be I should send my CV to FM... I weld SS pipe everyday
LOL, everything FM sells is not made by FM, so you might want to send your CV to China where they outsource some of this from. Maybe send it to BEGi, I am sure that a talented fabricator is worth something there, plus Corky makes a damn good Margarita.

Mark

PS - See, you didn't get flamed... we only flame the morons who can't form a complete sentence or want tips on how to polish their shift ****.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Markp View Post
LOL, everything FM sells is not made by FM, so you might want to send your CV to China where they outsource some of this from. Maybe send it to BEGi, I am sure that a talented fabricator is worth something there, plus Corky makes a damn good Margarita.

Mark

PS - See, you didn't get flamed... we only flame the morons who can't form a complete sentence or want tips on how to polish their shift ****.

Are you serious? They do not make 100% of what they sell? Or at least, not made in a good reputable shop in America or Canada or elsewhere in a good production country? And yeah, if someday I choose to go live south, I will surely try to knock at the door of Corky

Yippee! I'm not a moron! (At least not now!)
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:20 PM   #52
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I have a DP, Manifold and heat shield from BEGI.

The manifold is nothing spectacular to look at, pretty much a cast manifold. The clearances for wrenches are this *****, my Greddy manifold was WAY easier to install. Minor point.

The DP is a real work of art, the fit is OK. Not perfect but will work given it has the flex joint in it and exhaust hangers are pretty flexy.

The heatshield. Looks like pure sex. the Aluminum tig welds make me feel funny in my pants. However as shipped it wouldn't fit. No way. Let me say that Stephanie was very good about it and was willing to make what ever changes to it I wanted to make it fit. But it should have fit in the first place, and if I had their water bypass it would have been no problem at all. So I had to modify it to fit, not something I wanted to do with a brand new part. Whatever, it fits and that's the important part.

I should be getting my FM I/C pipes this week, and along with that will be a throttle body tube made out of stainless that has bungs welded on it. I will post pictures of the BEGI DP and the FM piece. Everyone can decide for themselves.

I will say this, if the part I get from FM looks like the one on the BEGI website, it'll be going back. I can't weld worth **** and my stuff looks better than that.

Mark, what exactly is FM outsourcing to China? This sounds like mud slinging coming from a guy that has been talking up the virtues of his ChinaCharger. I've got a Chinacooler and a ChinaRad, both look perfectly fine to me.
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:33 PM   #53
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I said it before, I will say it again. There is good stuff and there is crap coming out of China... same goes for everywhere else on the planet, including the U.S.

I have no problem with it, I stated that the part was functional but ugly... charging a premium like FM does for their Chinese intercooler is humorous. The Indian manifold casting looks pretty low quality... but I am not gonna call it crap unless they start having cracking issues.

Mark
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:38 AM   #54
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The correction numbers should actually be pretty accurate for N/A and SC cars, assuming things like the fuel system can handle the extra volume, etc. For a TC car, as Mark stated sometime earlier, the CF should be about half of what they use.
Cause Oh my god.. 93 octane is just SOOOOO much better than like, say, 92 octane pump fuel....
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:27 AM   #55
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On another note... I didn't know that Gary was a douche on forums other than Miata.net. Not a big surprise.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:35 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
On another note... I didn't know that Gary was a douche on forums other than Miata.net. Not a big surprise.
You'd be a douche too if people were shitting all over a forum you owned.
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:23 AM   #57
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I'm 100 Percent sure FM sends their cast's to either China or India. Their new kits are mostly mode of parts that they have sent overseas for "production."
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:50 AM   #58
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The issue isn't about the products, since both have issues report (which is understandable given variances from car to car). Neither FM nor BEGI have catastrophes reported back from their kits. I think it's more an issue of reporting power numbers that create questionable credibility. It's unfortunate that dyno numbers have become such a marketing tool BUT most who are spending the money get the most from those numbers. IMO - the proof is in real world performance - like the strip for real power (same car, same driver, different kits). Hah... like that would ever happen.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:22 AM   #59
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FM is at least consistent (even if it's consistently high) with their dyno numbers for the most part. they may use a high correction factor but at least they freely hand it out.

I wonder if they post higher numbers because there's less tire-dyno loss...
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:10 PM   #60
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well the fastest BP miata in the world is powered by a 2.0L Stroker FM motor, with a custom T-66 Kit. 617WHP here at sea level. Theres an FM2 99 here in tampa that ran a 13.8 at bradenton the other week. (240 WHP?)

My (old) car with an Xede and stage 3 (had the boost set at 10PSI dyno'd the day before at 223RWHP at that level.) and ran a 13.4 @ 106 MPH with a horrible (2.4) 60ft. Also had some fun on the street against a hydra FM2 and pulled away from them at 14PSI. It could just be the driver though
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