TOP 10 things a new car design should be.
03-16-2013, 01:00 PM
#23
If you could buy a Toyobaru as a stripper that came with zero interior, no carpet, no door panels, no seats, no radio, no HVAC, no nothing, no diver aids of any kind, no airbags, no sound deadening, no fuel tank, no glove box, no fancy cosmetic engine covers, and had manual window and mirrors... and came with 4 donut spares instead of factory wheels, all with the intent of buying it at a lower price than the GT or whatever... then you might have something.
So, bring a trailer, drive straight to your garage and install "race stuff"... then trailer to a track and get totally crushed by a girl who bought the fully loaded showroom version with an automatic and fluffy steering wheel cover because her car came with abs and traction control and you totally suck.
So, bring a trailer, drive straight to your garage and install "race stuff"... then trailer to a track and get totally crushed by a girl who bought the fully loaded showroom version with an automatic and fluffy steering wheel cover because her car came with abs and traction control and you totally suck.
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03-16-2013, 02:59 PM
#25
How about the
The BRZ and FR-Z was great in concept, but then they fell to the regulation, mediocre PR department, and all that "being green" crap, so a bit of awesome was replaced by leaves and unnecessary monies. Hopefully this stuff will be "remedied" in future models.
I am quite curious at what designers are trying to do in the future, and I really hope they fix things.
Like toyota, making me sad with this 2015 concept of the new supra.
However, if the new miata looks close to this, ill splooge.
edit: Also, anyone know how these handle irl? All I can find is closed bias opinion.
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03-18-2013, 01:24 PM
#27
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Looking at the two "different" cars - it seems to me that buyers of the FR-S are going to be women who are either fresh out of college, single, and looking for their first new car, or late thirties to early forties with their first child having graduated high school and moved away. The BRZ on the other hand seems like a car that is going to be bought by parents of spoiled boys who want to make sure their kids have the coolest cars while also scoring their own bonus points by getting something that is somewhat fuel efficient, thereby spending less money buying their child's gas to get him to and from the movie theater. The secondary demographic of the BRZ is going to be single males in their mid to late twenties who have never owned any type of "sporty", "performance", "new", or "driver oriented" cars, but rather have been limited to cars based on what was available within their budget at the local used car dealership and now want to buy their first "new" car based on emotional impulse after having received their first few big paychecks from their new job as a department supervisor. This man's only "non-negotiable" consideration when buying their new car is that he "isn't going to buy a freaking mustang".
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03-18-2013, 07:57 PM
#28
What's with the BRZ/FRS hate? Serious question.
I haven't driven one, or known anyone to drive one, so my opinions are based on magazine articles. From what I've read, I was picturing a well balanced, fun to drive car. Not to powerful, but hell, I drive a Miata, so wasn't to worried about that. STI will be out soon.
What am I missing? What's wrong with them? Why their demographics being compared to 6 cylinder mustangs owners?
I haven't driven one, or known anyone to drive one, so my opinions are based on magazine articles. From what I've read, I was picturing a well balanced, fun to drive car. Not to powerful, but hell, I drive a Miata, so wasn't to worried about that. STI will be out soon.
What am I missing? What's wrong with them? Why their demographics being compared to 6 cylinder mustangs owners?
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03-18-2013, 08:14 PM
#30
No one here is really hating on the idea of the BRZ/FRS...
Their demographics are being compared to 6 cylinder mustangs and other budget "sporty" cars because...well...
...You simply can't sell a brand new "sport compact" to a performance automotive enthusiast - any true enthusiast who is spending "brand new FRS/BRZ" kind of money on a sports car is buying a late model corvette, and any performance automotive enthusiast who is set on buying a "brand new sports car" isn't buying a "sport compact"...with the exception of one group of people who call themselves "enthusiasts", but are really just "enthusiastic" about their purchase, a.k.a. this guy:
The rare "performance automotive enthusiast" who is buying a brand new BRZ/FRS is the 40-something who doesn't want to DD his track-only corvette, his F350 tow vehicle, OR his BMW 7-Series to work.
Their demographics are being compared to 6 cylinder mustangs and other budget "sporty" cars because...well...
...You simply can't sell a brand new "sport compact" to a performance automotive enthusiast - any true enthusiast who is spending "brand new FRS/BRZ" kind of money on a sports car is buying a late model corvette, and any performance automotive enthusiast who is set on buying a "brand new sports car" isn't buying a "sport compact"...with the exception of one group of people who call themselves "enthusiasts", but are really just "enthusiastic" about their purchase, a.k.a. this guy:
The rare "performance automotive enthusiast" who is buying a brand new BRZ/FRS is the 40-something who doesn't want to DD his track-only corvette, his F350 tow vehicle, OR his BMW 7-Series to work.
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03-18-2013, 09:52 PM
#31
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Bah. That's your only take on it? Everyone isn't a rich guy looking to race or a ricer looking for something to uglify.
I'm 51. I drive like a maniac. The kid at work with the 11 second EVO tells me I "scare him". I want a sporty RWD car that isn't a stuck up German car (have you ever known anyone with a BMW that wasn't a dick?) and isn't going to cost a second mortgage. It's got to be reliable enough to be a DD. It's got to handle well. It doesn't need Charger SRT or Corvette power levels. It's got to be able to be thrown around. It has to be predictable as a sitcom.
It's my old Celica slightly updated. It is a Fiero GT without the cheesy plastic. It's a Mustang without the mullet.
I'm 51. I drive like a maniac. The kid at work with the 11 second EVO tells me I "scare him". I want a sporty RWD car that isn't a stuck up German car (have you ever known anyone with a BMW that wasn't a dick?) and isn't going to cost a second mortgage. It's got to be reliable enough to be a DD. It's got to handle well. It doesn't need Charger SRT or Corvette power levels. It's got to be able to be thrown around. It has to be predictable as a sitcom.
It's my old Celica slightly updated. It is a Fiero GT without the cheesy plastic. It's a Mustang without the mullet.
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03-19-2013, 09:20 AM
#32
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My dad has owned 4 bmws and now a mini cooper. he's not a dick.
however, most people i know with BRZs would be CR.net members.
I'd rather have a BRZ than our prelude, it would be slightly smaller, but it would be a better platform than that heavy fwd vtak.
too bad wifey is getting tired of a small car people dont see and merge into and hates dealing with the long doors. I might have reconsidered my WRX if I knew she was done with a 2dr herself. I wanted to have at least 1 practical car in the stable and might have gone the BRZ route myself. although I dont think I could get over how tiny the car is for a DD...and I say that as someone who DDs a miata all summer.
however, most people i know with BRZs would be CR.net members.
I'd rather have a BRZ than our prelude, it would be slightly smaller, but it would be a better platform than that heavy fwd vtak.
too bad wifey is getting tired of a small car people dont see and merge into and hates dealing with the long doors. I might have reconsidered my WRX if I knew she was done with a 2dr herself. I wanted to have at least 1 practical car in the stable and might have gone the BRZ route myself. although I dont think I could get over how tiny the car is for a DD...and I say that as someone who DDs a miata all summer.
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03-20-2013, 02:32 AM
#34
Bauer Ltd
I'm a little partial, but I like the Catfish.
LSD, 6speed, convertible (barchetta), front engine, RWD, simple interior (REALLY simple), based on 60's style British car (Aston, Jaguar, AC, Triumph).
Let the "yes buts" begin...
I'm a little partial, but I like the Catfish.
LSD, 6speed, convertible (barchetta), front engine, RWD, simple interior (REALLY simple), based on 60's style British car (Aston, Jaguar, AC, Triumph).
Let the "yes buts" begin...
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03-20-2013, 01:11 PM
#37
This is NOT a DD car. Unless it makes the car go, stop or turn, it's probably not included. However, if your best memories include bombing your nearby race course at a track day or a secret twisty road not far from your home, this could be a car to consider...
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03-22-2013, 05:27 PM
#40
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Test driving a V6 Mustang and a BRZ this weekend. So I guess they are quite comparable.....for my mom who is basically looking for a car thats not boring to drive, gets good mileage for a 60 mile daily commute, is new (had the whole 'buy a low mileage used car' conversation about 5 times, no go) and is under 30K.
When you look at those requirements, they are both options. We would throw a Genesis in there too, but the local Hyundai dealer sucks.
Will be interesting to see how this magical rear suspension of the new Mustang does on crappy roads. I've heard a lot about that and how good the steering is. The lap times are pretty impressive for a car in this price/power/weight range.
My guess: BRZ more 'fun' for her to drive, ends up being about 4 grand more. Cheaper on tires, same on gas, probably more on insurance. Less room, but something tells me that at 5'5 its not going to be a big deal. It may actually come down to which dealer is less BS-y and which car has better visibility and ergonomics.
I would love to see a good track competition on stockish sized tires that are worth a damn with decent brake pads. I doubt the Mustang would 'crush' the BRZ in that case. In that form my money is on the BRZ. And with lower running costs. None of which matters because who the hell would buy a V6 Mustang as a track toy anyway. It would make for an interesting read and thats about the extent of it. People get the GT with track pack or the Boss and are in a different class than the BRZ in terms of power and cost.
The STI BRZ will make the whole track car vs Mustang argument relevant....if its 300 or more HP, 2800 or less lbs, and ~35K or lower.
When you look at those requirements, they are both options. We would throw a Genesis in there too, but the local Hyundai dealer sucks.
Will be interesting to see how this magical rear suspension of the new Mustang does on crappy roads. I've heard a lot about that and how good the steering is. The lap times are pretty impressive for a car in this price/power/weight range.
My guess: BRZ more 'fun' for her to drive, ends up being about 4 grand more. Cheaper on tires, same on gas, probably more on insurance. Less room, but something tells me that at 5'5 its not going to be a big deal. It may actually come down to which dealer is less BS-y and which car has better visibility and ergonomics.
I would love to see a good track competition on stockish sized tires that are worth a damn with decent brake pads. I doubt the Mustang would 'crush' the BRZ in that case. In that form my money is on the BRZ. And with lower running costs. None of which matters because who the hell would buy a V6 Mustang as a track toy anyway. It would make for an interesting read and thats about the extent of it. People get the GT with track pack or the Boss and are in a different class than the BRZ in terms of power and cost.
The STI BRZ will make the whole track car vs Mustang argument relevant....if its 300 or more HP, 2800 or less lbs, and ~35K or lower.
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