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Old 02-16-2010, 03:31 PM   #1
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Default what is 200rwhp in a miata like?

just trying to set a power goal for primarily fun street use.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:33 PM   #2
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not enough
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:33 PM   #3
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its a great goal. car is quite fun and faster than most on the street at that level.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
its a great goal. car is quite fun and faster than most on the street at that level.
Faster than what?? slower than what??
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
Faster than what?? slower than what??
Faster than Hustler, slower than his mom.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:45 PM   #6
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fast than your daddies 96 v6 mustang convertible, slower than a corvette I think? lol
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Faster than Hustler, slower than his mom.
that must be pretty fast
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:46 PM   #8
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It's fun, but I would get a turbo (2560) and EMS (diypnp) that will allow you to up the boost ~ 250 when you get bored with 200 whp. It seems that this should be fine on stock internals and don't beat on the trans like a retard. (ie drag launches, etc)

Word of caution: Building a motor seems like a great idea. It's a money pit. There are a lot of upgrades that can/arguably should be done to protect the "built motor investment". Then you will want to use the motor to it's potential. Bigger turbo, injectors, better manifold, downpipe, exhaust, etc.

Be happy with 250 whp unless you have an extra 5k (on top of your current setup) in expendible cash flow. Used 1.8/1.6 engines and transmissions are cheap,plentiful, and easy to swap. Break one, put in another, and swap components. You will probably get years of 250 whp bliss. Cross the threshold and hemorrhage money.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
It's fun, but I would get a turbo (2560) and EMS (diypnp) that will allow you to up the boost ~ 250 when you get bored with 200 whp. It seems that this should be fine on stock internals and don't beat on the trans like a retard. (ie drag launches, etc)

Word of caution: Building a motor seems like a great idea. It's a money pit. There are a lot of upgrades that can/arguably should be done to protect the "built motor investment". Then you will want to use the motor to it's potential. Bigger turbo, injectors, better manifold, downpipe, exhaust, etc.

Be happy with 250 whp unless you have an extra 5k (on top of your current setup) in expendible cash flow. Used 1.8/1.6 engines and transmissions are cheap,plentiful, and easy to swap. Break one, put in another, and swap components. You will probably get years of 250 whp bliss. Cross the threshold and hemorrhage money.
yeah i was torn between the 2554 and the 2560, is the difference in spool really that great for my wee 1.6?
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:51 PM   #10
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how do you plan to drive the car? the 2554 is nice for a sub 220rwhp setup.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:55 PM   #11
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Just a quick list of common cars with hp to weight ratios from a few years ago. Compare the miata to the rest of the list. Should give you some idea how much fun an FI miata is.


90 Miata w/ intercooled turbo kit - Say $7000 for $3k car, $3k turbo kit, $1k engine management - Obviously can be done for much less. Weight 2200lbs. 200rwhp = approx 240 SAE HP. This gives you 9.16lb / bhp.


FI Miata = 240 / $7000 / 9.16 /


Acura TSX=205 / $29000 / 15.7 /
Acura TL=286 / $39000 / 12.6 /

Audi TT=255 / $40000 / 10.9 /
Audi A3=250 / $34000 / 12.9 /
Audi RS4=420 / $66000 / 8.6 /

BMW 3 Series=300 / $41000 / 10.9 /
BMW Z4=330 / $51800 / 9.1 /

Bugati Veyron 16.4 =987 / $1,200,000 / 4.2 /

Buick LaCrosse=240 / $29000 / 14.5 /
Buick Lucerbe=275 / $35000 / 13.6 /

Cadillac CTS-V=400 / $51000 / 9.2 /
Cadillac STS-V=469 / $77000 / 8.2 /

Chevy Cobalt SS=205 / $22000 / 13.5 /
Chevy Corvette C6=400 / $45000 / 7.95 /
Chevy Corvette Z06=505 / $70000 / 6.3 /
Chevy Impala SS=303 / $28000 / 11.7 /
Chevy Malibu SS=240 / $25000 / 13.2 /
Chevy Monte Carlo SS=303 / $28000 / 11.0 /
Chevy Trailblazer SS=395 / $33000 / 12.0 /

Chrysler Crossfire=215 / $40000 / 14.0 /
Chrysler PT Cruiser=230 / $29000 / 13.3 /
Chrysler 300C SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 8.7 /

Dodge Caliber SRT-4=300 / $24000 / 9.8 /
Dodge Charger SRT-8=425 / $36000 / 8.9 /
Dodge Viper SRT-10=510 / $84000 / 6.7 /

Ford Mustang GT500=500 / $41000 / 6.7 /
Ford Mustang GT=300 / $28000 / 11.5 /

Honda S2000=237 / $34000 / 11.9 /
Honda Civic Si=197 / $24000 / 14.6 /

Hyundai Tiburon=172 / $20000 / 17.3 /

Infinite G35=315 / $35000 / 11.1 /

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 11.2 /

Lexus IS350=306 / $35000 / 11.3 /

Lincoln MKZ=263 / $35000 / 12.9 /

Lotus Elise=190 / $43000 / 10.4 /
Lotus Exige=243 / $80000 / 8.1 /

Mazda MX-5=170 / $28000 / 14.35 /
Mazda RX-8=238 / $28000 / 12.7 /
MazdaSpeed3=260 / $24000 / 10.3 /
MazdaSpeed6=287 / $30000 / 11.1 /

Mercedes CLK=475 / $85000 / 7.5 /

Mini Cooper S=175 / $25000 / 14.5 /

Mitsubishi Evo XI=286 / $35000 / 11.18
Mitsubishi Eclipse=260 / $29000 / 14.1 /

Nissan Altima=365 / $30000 / 11.5 /
Nissan 350Z=315 / $42000 / 10.6

Pontiac Solstice GXP=260 / $26000 / 11.5 /
Pontiac G6=252 / $29000 / 13.4 /
Pontiac Grand Prix=303 / $28000 / 11.4

Porche Boxter S=295 / $65000 / 9.7 /
Porche Cayman S=295 / $70000 / 10 /

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo=750 / $600000 / 3.9 /

Saturn Ion=205 / $21000 / 13.4 /
Saturn Sky=260 / $29000 / 11.2 /

Scion tC=161 / $17000 / 18.0 /

Subaru STI=293 / $33000 / 10.3 /
Subaru Legacy=250 / $34000 / 12.2 /

VW Jetta=200 / $24000 / 16.1 /
VW GTI=200 / $23000 / 15.8 /

Volvo V50=218 / $35000 / 14.8 /
Volvo S60=300 / $36000 / 11.6 /
Volvo V70=300 / $37000 / 10.98 /
Volvo S80=311 / $45000 / 11.2 /
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:58 PM   #12
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well, it will become my daily driver, i may take it to a course for fun every once in a while. i want more reliability than 250 rwhp would give me on stock internals so i think 230-240 upper limit is more realistic.

i just bought a suspension setup H&r race springs with bilstein hd's valved to them and some fcm 36mm bumpstops, along with some new wheel trmotorsport c1's with some meh tires and i plan on upgrading the diff and clutch in some time

mostly looking for fun, the 2554 appeals to me because of its lower end torque but the 2560 could give me more power if i wanted it in the future.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:59 PM   #13
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The spool on the 2554 felt immediate when I nailed the throttle in traffic. It falls on its face at top end and I didn't like that "lack of pull feeling" as torque ell off. It all depends on your style.

If you want a practical setup that makes the car feel like a go kart then the 2554 is the ticket. Right now power, but not going to win any high speed races.

If you want the overwhelming rush of energy feeling, and can tolerate being a little less practical for in town driving, then I would go bigger.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:01 PM   #14
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sort by P:W *******.


Saleen S7 Twin Turbo=750 $600,000 3.9
Bugati Veyron 16.4 =987 $1,200,000 4.2
Chevy Corvette Z06=505 $70,000 6.3
Dodge Viper SRT-10=510 $84,000 6.7
Ford Mustang GT500=500 $41,000 6.7
Mercedes CLK=475 $85,000 7.5
Chevy Corvette C6=400 $45,000 7.95
Lotus Exige=243 $80,000 8.1
Cadillac STS-V=469 $77,000 8.2
Audi RS4=420 $66,000 8.6
Chrysler 300C SRT-8=425 $40,000 8.7
Dodge Charger SRT-8=425 $36,000 8.9
BMW Z4=330 $51,800 9.1
FI Miata = 240 $7,000 9.16
Cadillac CTS-V=400 $51,000 9.2
Porche Boxter S=295 $65,000 9.7
Dodge Caliber SRT-4=300 $24,000 9.8
Porche Cayman S=295 $70,000 10
MazdaSpeed3=260 $24,000 10.3
Subaru STI=293 $33,000 10.3
Lotus Elise=190 $43,000 10.4
Nissan 350Z=315 $42,000 10.6
Audi TT=255 $40,000 10.9
BMW 3 Series=300 $41,000 10.9
Volvo V70=300 $37,000 10.98
Chevy Monte Carlo SS=303 $28,000 11
Infinite G35=315 $35,000 11.1
MazdaSpeed6=287 $30,000 11.1
Mitsubishi Evo XI=286 $35,000 11.18
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8=425 $40,000 11.2
Saturn Sky=260 $29,000 11.2
Volvo S80=311 $45,000 11.2
Lexus IS350=306 $35,000 11.3
Pontiac Grand Prix=303 $28,000 11.4
Ford Mustang GT=300 $28,000 11.5
Nissan Altima=365 $30,000 11.5
Pontiac Solstice GXP=260 $26,000 11.5
Volvo S60=300 $36,000 11.6
Chevy Impala SS=303 $28,000 11.7
Honda S2000=237 $34,000 11.9
Chevy Trailblazer SS=395 $33,000 12
Subaru Legacy=250 $34,000 12.2
Acura TL=286 $39,000 12.6
Mazda RX-8=238 $28,000 12.7
Audi A3=250 $34,000 12.9
Lincoln MKZ=263 $35,000 12.9
Chevy Malibu SS=240 $25,000 13.2
Chrysler PT Cruiser=230 $29,000 13.3
Pontiac G6=252 $29,000 13.4
Saturn Ion=205 $21,000 13.4
Chevy Cobalt SS=205 $22,000 13.5
Buick Lucerbe=275 $35,000 13.6
Chrysler Crossfire=215 $40,000 14
Mitsubishi Eclipse=260 $29,000 14.1
Mazda MX-5=170 $28,000 14.35
Buick LaCrosse=240 $29,000 14.5
Mini Cooper S=175 $25,000 14.5
Honda Civic Si=197 $24,000 14.6
Volvo V50=218 $35,000 14.8
Acura TSX=205 $29,000 15.7
VW GTI=200 $23,000 15.8
VW Jetta=200 $24,000 16.1
Hyundai Tiburon=172 $20,000 17.3
Scion tC=161 $17,000 18
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:07 PM   #15
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that really puts things into perspective, comparatively that's pretty fast, can't beat that price!
200rwhp definitely seems reasonable...
edit: ill look at some torque curve graphs to see what i want in that realm, the high end drop off may not be worth it but there is always a tradeoff
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Faster than Hustler, slower than his mom.
lulz....
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:15 PM   #17
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What's the accepted Miata drive train loss # or %? is it static or dynamic vs. power?
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
sort by P:W *******.

That's why your name is Braineack. I haven't the slightest idea how to put that on a spreadsheet and sort it in a reasonable amount of time! Thanks for the proper sorting of that list, *****.


Frostyllama,

Power to weight isn't the end all be all obviously but it sure gives you a good idea of how much fun our cars are.

Your screen name reminds me of....

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Old 02-16-2010, 04:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
What's the accepted Miata drive train loss # or %? is it static or dynamic vs. power?

25 rwhp

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
That's why your name is Braineack. I haven't the slightest idea how to put that on a spreadsheet and sort it in a reasonable amount of time!

Thanks for the proper sorting of that list, *****.
pasted in notepad and replaced all the "/" with "tabs", then pasted that into excel and sorted by column C ascending.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:23 PM   #20
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I dont even think i've crossed the 200hp mark and i'm having a blast with my car a year after boosting still. Fun on the track, fun on the autox course, great daily and I have a SR20 T25 (basically 2554) with full 3" exhaust from turbo back.

Sometimes I seriously consider going T3 but I just dont think its worth it at this point for my goals. I'm certainly not trying to break any power records.
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