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Old 03-10-2010, 11:20 PM   #21
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So what is realistic? 15 HP? 10 HP? No way in hell sounds like you think I am way off base. Do you lose HP going to IRTBs, replacement ECU and getting rid of the AFM? You gotta get something...
Probably 5-10 hp compared to a stock IM already running a MAP sensor.
Im not sure how much can be gained from ditching the MAF but its probably not huge.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:24 PM   #22
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I'm not out there to set big numbers, just going to have some fun with this while I have it. I'm pretty sure my dad will buy them from me, he's all into the old school ITB thing, heh.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #23
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The thing about irtb's is that you eliminate the stopage in the intake tract considerably. But you still have a cork keeping you from going anywhere. The stock cam and ecu is the cork. At least I did not have a stock ecu slowing me down. I probably got less than 150 horsepower with ported 95 head and carbs, but when I put a cam in it, the other mods reached it's potential.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:20 AM   #24
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Something like that would have a lot more benefit if it was reved well beyond 7K along with a huge cam. It sort of eliminating a bottleneck thats not really there for an NA car otherwise.

Rev it to nighn-thowsand are-pee-emmm son.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
The thing about irtb's is that you eliminate the stopage in the intake tract considerably.
Exactly- IRTBs don't fix the real bottleneck when it comes to making NA power. I made 155rwhp with a stock 99 engine (b&b), ecu, cams/adj gears and shim-under-bucket valve train and stock intake manifold with AFM (required).
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:23 PM   #26
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Keith picked up 7rwhp with his Fujiracing ITB setup on his Targa's 2.0L High CR motor...

and only after a bit of tuning...


http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/targa%20IRTB.pdf



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Old 03-11-2010, 12:38 PM   #27
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Wow...and that's with headers, cams, adjustable gears, more displacement, more compression ratio...good grief.

But I bet the throttle response is nice...can't get that with a turbo.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:13 PM   #28
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You've got to figure if the stock intake manifold isn't a restriction until the engine make ~250rwhp, then it's probably fine at less.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:15 PM   #29
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Keith picked up that 6-7 hp vs a modded 99 intake and with an heavily modded motor. This would be vs. a stock intake. With the irtbs, 99 head on a 97 motor and MS 15-20 hp shouldn't be unrealistic. Does the exintake cam swap help with itbs?
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:31 PM   #30
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All the top level CSP guys don't use ITBs, because like they said above if its good to ~250hp then it should ok below that.

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Keith picked up that 6-7 hp vs a modded 99 intake and with an heavily modded motor. This would be vs. a stock intake. With the irtbs, 99 head on a 97 motor and MS 15-20 hp shouldn't be unrealistic. Does the exintake cam swap help with itbs?
Its a 01 block son! lol

The exintake cam swap would help, it seemed to help on N3V's car anyways.

I'd be happy to see 135rwhp on an mustang, but that might be too optimistic.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:12 PM   #31
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So you are going up to 10 to 1 compression to then turn around and go turbo later?
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:57 PM   #32
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So you are going up to 10 to 1 compression to then turn around and go turbo later?
No, building one of the extra 94 short-blocks I have with supertech bits.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:54 PM   #33
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Despite the ebonics, I was being sorta serious. If I was doing a build for that sort of thing I would have a good valve train and rev the **** out of it. You have virtually 0 intake restriction, and thats the way to use it.

Thing is, you would want pretty nasty cams to get any benefit up there too. And I have no idea how stock rods, specifically their caps and fasteners, will do at high rpm. Tensile forces from high rpm will kill a rod just as fast if not faster than compresive forces.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
Despite the ebonics, I was being sorta serious. If I was doing a build for that sort of thing I would have a good valve train and rev the **** out of it. You have virtually 0 intake restriction, and thats the way to use it.

Thing is, you would want pretty nasty cams to get any benefit up there too. And I have no idea how stock rods, specifically their caps and fasteners, will do at high rpm. Tensile forces from high rpm will kill a rod just as fast if not faster than compresive forces.

I turn my stock rodded motor to 7800 rpm, albiet not at road racing conditions.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Keith picked up 7rwhp with his Fujiracing ITB setup on his Targa's 2.0L High CR motor...

and only after a bit of tuning...


http://www.targamiata.com/images_lrg/targa%20IRTB.pdf



Kieth has a very little cam with stock shim over lifters. If he put a shim under monster cam in there, he would see big gains.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:04 PM   #36
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Jimmy's car had stock rods, end-caps, and not sure on the fasteners. I know he rev'd it out to 8k a lot on the track. Evenually they gave out and now he's going rotary.

This thread has been very motivational to get a turbo back in my car, thank you!
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Old 03-12-2010, 01:12 AM   #37
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Those Targa vids are pretty motivational too. Sweet car.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:35 AM   #38
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Hey flier, i would send you my exhintake cam if you could get my little brother to mail me a stock intake cam and gear like i have been asking his *** to. He is a fagette that wont mail a damn thing.
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