My MSM is finished!
3 Attachment(s)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400163621
My pride and joy, a 2004 MSM that I bought almost 5 years ago. It has been out of comission since last June getting a motor overhaul. While we were at it waiting on some parts, we bought more parts, and it ended up being a lengthy and expensive project. Engine BP4W Mazdaspeed .020 over BP4W ported head Eagle H-Beam Rods Wiseco 83.5mm 8.5:1 Boundary Engineering Street/Strip oil pump SuperMiata harmonic damper ARP head/main studs ACL Race bearings Supertech Valve Spring kit VICS delete Turbo ARTech custom top-mount manifold Swaintech White Lightning manifold coating ARTech 3” v-band downpipe catless BorgWarner EFR6258 turbo CorkSport 80mm Catback AN-4 feed AN-10 drain Cooling TrackSpeedEngineering crossflow radiator FlyinMiata coolant re-route FlyinMiata Oil cooler kit Fab9Tuning 550HP Intercooler SPAL 14” curved fan DeRale PS cooler Electronics Megasquirt 2xtra Fab9Tuning COP kit AEM EUGO WBo2 Autometer Boost gauge FuelInjectorClinic 775cc ev14 injectors Walbro 225lph pump Drivetrain Competition 13lb flywheel FlyinMiata Stage2 clutch kit PuddyMod Stage2 differential (cryo treated option) Mazda “Aussie” 3.63 ring and pinion Energy Differential mounts SuperMiata SS Clutch line MiataRoadster SS kit Mazdaspeed competiton motor mounts 949Racing Driveshaft Suspension Tein FLEX 7kg/6kg Coilovers RacingBeat 1.125” front sway bar RacingBeat sway reinforcement kit RacingBeat adjustable sway links Hawk HPS pads SuperMiata SS Brake lines HardDog Hardcore Double Diagonal Rollbar Wheels And Tires 949Racing 6UL gen3 15x9 Nicke 225/45/R15 Hankook Ventus RS3 tires Forged lugs https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400163621 Some of the parts were on the car before we started, but a lot was added along the way. We waited for about 3 months for the main bearings to come from ACL because nobody could get them and ACL apparently made a bad batch that they scrapped and started over (good thing I didnt get those). Can't really do a build thread at this point but it was a really fun project. I learned lots along the way and got to assemble (with help of a great mechanic) lots of things on the car including the whole head, block, etc. a very hands on project. Car is set to go to Oracle Tuning to Ken Hill (formerly an FM employee) to be tuned at the end of the month. I am aiming for 300whp which should come fairly easily. I think it will do ~325 before breaking a sweat as a few others have done with similar setups. FEELIN GOOD! :skid: |
Alex - this came out top notch. Looks like you've got yourself a solid setup. That intercooler looks great :party:
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Hurray on getting this bad boy back on the road! Looks quick, sweet turbo!
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This car is setup very closely to my build and I am interested in seeing how some numbers as well. Are you having issues with the amperage draw when the 14" SPAL kicks on? I'm having compensating for that in tunerstudio. Also are you running the Fab9 PNP COP kit or a full sequential?
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Originally Posted by FrankB
(Post 1131623)
This car is setup very closely to my build and I am interested in seeing how some numbers as well. Are you having issues with the amperage draw when the 14" SPAL kicks on? I'm having compensating for that in tunerstudio. Also are you running the Fab9 PNP COP kit or a full sequential?
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Yes, my car sometimes dies when the fan kicks on at idle, especially right when coming out of gear. The RPMs drop really low but the engine recovers most of the time. If you put a restrictor on it you'll lose a lot of the CFMs. There wasn't anything my tuner could change to make up for it. Soviet wasn't able to tune it out on his car either, I think he ended up going with a higher output alternator but is now working out some issues with that. I send you the best of luck with trying to sort that out. If you find something that works please let me know.
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Reverent said
Enable closed loop control then: Base Setup -> EGO Control -> Controller Authority: 25%. I won't get to try for a few days. Anyone else welcome to. What is causing the stalling? The fan? I doubt it because the car dies coming out of gear even at 40 or 50mph sometimes. |
I'm not sure about your situation but my stalling is from the fan kicking on and drawing too much amperage that the car can't compensate
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Smaller fan a solution?
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Correction to initial post: "VICS delete" should read "VTCS delete" - MSMs have a VTCS intake manifold.
I posted this correction in your mazda-speed.com thread too but it got deleted for some reason. Looking forward to your dyno chart to compare it to my build when it's finished. I still need to install my Fab9 COPs, Fab9 350hp intercooler, squaretop intake manifold and Skunk2 throttle body - just waiting on the ID 725cc injectors to arrive (apart from the intercooler, the other components are easier to install in one hit since the intake manifold head needs to be removed to install the injectors and I plan to mount the Fab9 COP control unit on the shelf under the brake booster which will be easier to install with the intake manifold removed completely). |
This car is awesome! I wish I could have rode in it with the big turbo on! Glad to see it finally coming all together. Now I need to get my ass in gear and go bigger turbo.
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Originally Posted by FrankB
(Post 1131699)
Soviet wasn't able to tune it out on his car either, I think he ended up going with a higher output alternator but is now working out some issues with that. I send you the best of luck with trying to sort that out. If you find something that works please let me know.
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Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 1131728)
Actually the 90A alternator off a V6 mazda/probe solved it, the issues I'm having now are unrelated.
I'm not sure if I want to fork out more money or just get a smaller fan. It is a very annoying issue. Depends how much the alternator is I have ms2x btw |
Can you increase idle target by 50-100 RPM? I've got the same fan and had the same issue last year. Now my CL idle needs some work to get it back to targets, it idles ~1200 RPM hot and barely notice when the fan kicks in. That thing sure does move some air.
Now that the A/C is gone I wish I had gone with the 13" model instead. |
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder
(Post 1131731)
Expensive part? Were you able to use same belt?
I'm not sure if I want to fork out more money or just get a smaller fan. It is a very annoying issue. Depends how much the alternator is I have ms2x btw the stock belt fits. you can use any KL-DE equipped car Some of them came with 5 rib, some with 4 rib belts - but it still fits either way. Some (MX-6, 626) have same plug as NA miatas, others (Millenia) have a different plug. For mounting, the lower bolt sometimes goes back-to-front (MX-6) or front-to-back (Millenia) - it depends which hole of the lower mount is threaded. The upper mounting ear is a little bit offset so I couldn't use a tensioner bolt = tension by brute force. |
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder
(Post 1131706)
Reverent said
Enable closed loop control then: Base Setup -> EGO Control -> Controller Authority: 25%. I won't get to try for a few days. Anyone else welcome to. What is causing the stalling? The fan? I doubt it because the car dies coming out of gear even at 40 or 50mph sometimes. This makes the engine lose lots of power, and something even as simple as both fans coming on will make the engine droop badly or even stall. By enabling closed loop, you are making sure that you always idle at 14.7:1 (or lower), so a stall won't happen. Actually, I don't even remember when was the last time my car stalled and obviously I'm running closed loop all the time (in fact, I'm running closed loop per cylinder with the MS3). |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 1131758)
When your car is warm, it starts to heatsoak the IAT sensor. When this happens, the ECU is pulling lots of fuel, leaning the mixture (16-17:1 range).
This makes the engine lose lots of power, and something even as simple as both fans coming on will make the engine droop badly or even stall. By enabling closed loop, you are making sure that you always idle at 14.7:1 (or lower), so a stall won't happen. Actually, I don't even remember when was the last time my car stalled and obviously I'm running closed loop all the time (in fact, I'm running closed loop per cylinder with the MS3).
Originally Posted by soviet
(Post 1131753)
$30 at a junkyard with a 1 year warranty
the stock belt fits. you can use any KL-DE equipped car Some of them came with 5 rib, some with 4 rib belts - but it still fits either way. Some (MX-6, 626) have same plug as NA miatas, others (Millenia) have a different plug. For mounting, the lower bolt sometimes goes back-to-front (MX-6) or front-to-back (Millenia) - it depends which hole of the lower mount is threaded. The upper mounting ear is a little bit offset so I couldn't use a tensioner bolt = tension by brute force. If anyone gets to do this (FrankB) before myself, please let us know results :bigtu: |
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeeder
(Post 1131787)
I'm going to try this first. Should I still do the EGO control thing you said?
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Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 1131808)
What I said about EGO is what you should do. In some cases, setting the timing in the idle regions to 14 may also help.
Will this possibly help the car from stalling when its coming out of gear. If I'm driving and just put the car in neutral, it will shut off unless i touch the pedal to maintain the RPM, almost like there's nothing there to "catch" it from falling below a certain point. This only happens once the car is warmed up. |
The alternator will help but Rev is correct. The car should not take that big of a hit due to the additional electrical loads of a fan. It's my experience that each ECU will respond differently to this but MS was especially touchy.
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet but the MSM relies on the ECU to make adjustments. They did this to solve this exact problem they can literally tune around and anticipate the additional loads. I have the feeling an internally regulated alternator all together will substantially help or solve the problem (although you shouldn't dismiss the fact that you still probably have some tuning to do). It's not that the current alternator doesn't have the ability to overcome the load, it's that it does not respond quickly enough to take care of it. Yes, some of it is the sensitivity to your tune but I'm running two relatively high current fans that activate at the same time without a hiccup and all I did was swap to an older NA alternator that was internally regulated. |
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