99 + DIYPNP 1.5 build comments/questions
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This will not be a walk-in-the park build thread, more comments and newbie questions (I'm finally high on solder fumes).
This is a Euro 1999 with Imobilizer. That means that the Fuel Pump Relay is activated by grounding 3P (Red/White) instead of 3N (ltGreen) as on the US model (i.e. connect "Fuel Pump" on the main board to 4P instead of 4N on the connector board) Setup and 1st plan:
Build Comment, DIYAT have left out the Q13-Q15 in point 6 on main assembly. A really newbie comment, the connector numbering 1,2,3,4 relates to Mazda 1,_,2,3 (so 4WXYZ on the connectorboard relates to 3WXYZ in the harness, the 4 injectors). While I'm waiting for the parts to the JC alternator control I might just as well shoot off some questions:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...&d=1276804925g But for the small number of afternoons I have invested the experience is good so far, the Firmware loaded at the first attempt (when I manage to convince Vista to place the USB-Serial at a port below 10), the Tunerstudio was able to burn small alterations (just tried a little with the RevLimiter). The real test will be when I get the alternator control made so I can attempt to start the thing. |
1. Connect the o2 port to the Db15 pin that you plan to bring the LC-1 in.
2. dunno. 3. should be fine. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 588354)
1. Connect the o2 port to the Db15 pin that you plan to bring the LC-1 in.
2. dunno. 3. should be fine. 3. Good to know. I seem to remember that heated O2 sensors was introduced to improve the tune at startup (startup emissions), but in the LC-1 instructions the warmup seems to be very important (both the procedure and not to let the heating go on too long before starting). Mixed messages or just Innovate being over cautious (or a sensitive Bosch sensor)? |
the lc-1 calibrates the warm up time it needs. your map should be tuned well enough once you're done with it that you don't even need an o2 signal, i never let it correct under warm-up mode ( <150*F ).
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Finally got hold of the parts for the JC Alternator Control.
Mocking it up on a Bread Board (test board) helped a lot. With the components I have the "Field Out" follows Vin (12V) until it gets to 14.16V, then it cuts to zero (or down a lot at 14.17V, at 14.2V its zero). So I played around a bit on the Bread Board to try to make it as compact as I liked (could not figure out how the DIY-layout was made). One thing to remember, add all connections/components before you start to give up :) The final layout did give the same result and so it did when soldered to the Proto Area. http://homepage.mac.com/niklasfalk/i...or_Control.png The fat multilines are ugly pin and solder connections on the backside of the board, making the second vertical row all GND etc. GND and 12V are attached to the backside ugliness. Talking about connections, I hope I'm guessing correct that 1T is the Field (goes to a transistor in the alternator that drives a coil) (1O is some other sensing stuff I guess? Looks like alternating signal from one of the phases in the alternator). DIYPNP and 99 stock knock sensor? What to "Knock+" and what to "Knock-"? There is just 2F/3F (knock signal in a shielded wire) and ground I can think of. Or should I just wait with options like that (And don't play around that much with timing in the beginning)? OK, Just skip the Knock sensor then (until I decide what to do. JC design seems to be an option, yet again, but with what results). |
It won't work with the 99 OEM knock sensor - the 99 sensor gives a stupid signal no othr ECU except the OEM understands...
Greets |
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 589659)
It won't work with the 99 OEM knock sensor - the 99 sensor gives a stupid signal no othr ECU except the OEM understands...
Greets One more thing to just disregard before getting into tuning (I really hope to be crank ready this weekend, if it starts is mostly up to my ability to follow instructions :)). |
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 589659)
It won't work with the 99 OEM knock sensor - the 99 sensor gives a stupid signal no othr ECU except the OEM understands...
Greets Dimitris |
The DIYPNP knock circuit is the exact same circuit in the MS1/Extra manual.
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is it 1O or 1T. The docs for the 99-00 DIYPNP suggests 1O but I've had an issue with 3 different alt circuits I've built.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 589731)
is it 1O or 1T. The docs for the 99-00 DIYPNP suggests 1O but I've had an issue with 3 different alt circuits I've built.
But this would not be the first fact regarding anything MS that is scattered and conflicting (especially over time). Interesting things regarding Knock you can find when you search :), I'll probably revisit it at a later stage (and figure out what amp/filter thingy is the best or just stay away form bad gas). |
I've never tried 1T, but I've built two on 1O. Both units work fine. Don't waste your time trying 1T.
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Originally Posted by f_devocht
(Post 589902)
I've never tried 1T, but I've built two on 1O. Both units work fine. Don't waste your time trying 1T.
But why overthink things that work... |
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk
(Post 588350)
Build Comment, DIYAT have left out the Q13-Q15 in point 6 on main assembly.
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Finally got to the cranking phase tonight, but only a slight stumble, nothing else.
I first programmed the yellow output from the LC-1 to be "0-5V 10-20AFR" and then double checked everything else. Cranking for the first time did nothing (expect humming from the idle valve). Looking at the O2 signal 10.00 seamed a bit strange while cranking, that did not correspond to the 15-16 on the Gauge (brown output wire on the LC-1). Starting the LM Programmer showed the Analogue 1 (yellow) to be set to factory default, what :( reprogram the LC-1 to "0-5V 10-20AFR" yet again, did a power-cycle and checked again, now it seemed to stick. Back online with Tuner Studio again and still 10.00 as signal, checked with LM programmer and it was yet again back to factory default... Fighting with this for an hour or so and switching back and forth between MS and stock ECU resulted in a LC-1 that now works as a narrowband regardless of programming. Even with stock ECU and only gauge attached it shoots from AFR22 to AFR7 at a blip of the throttle from idle. So tomorrow I'll have to restart with checking the sensor, reset everything, re-solder everything for the LC-1 and check if I've have some ground gremlins (verify that I can get the same behavior with the stock ECU as I had before (and check the yellow output with a volt meter before even approaching it with the MS). MS can never work better than it's sensors... Edit: It seems the LC-1 is loosing it's free-air calibration as soon as the MS stumble a couple of ignitions (ignitro wires quite close to the O2 in the MS, now moved a little). And now it seems to be a couple of AFR-units off. Free air calibration to 22 but says the stock idle at 18.5-20 (was 15.5-17 before)... Better read-up on cleaning the sensor for free-air calibration, it might not see absolutely "free" air during calibration. |
Where exactly is the LC-1 grounded?
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Originally Posted by Matt Cramer
(Post 591392)
Where exactly is the LC-1 grounded?
Power comes from the Main FIA switch (directly from the ignition key), the LC-1 complain about low power when cranking, need to find a connection that is only active during run (the Cigarette lighter is close by and I seem to remember that it's off during crank/start). The Heater ground for the LC-1 is taken from the harness 3A (DIYPNP 4A), the signal ground is taken from 3F/4F (the same as the ground for IAT, TPS etc). Should I run a separate ground wire for the heater to the ground point Nr_5 (instead of sharing the one for the injectors etc)? This setup works fine with the OEM ECU but MS is probably cruder. But I really hope that an invalid signal from the O2 is not the reason for it to fail to catch more than intermittent curing cranking (and at one time hearing a significant "sigh" from the intake indicating small backfire). I'll retry this evening with fresh firmware and new fresh msq (DIYAT sequential with only IDLE PWM change), setting the LC-1 to simulate a narrowband (having it disconnected while cranking). It can also be a good time to verify all the wires on the connector board... (sigh) |
Give the LC-1 its own, separate grounds, straight to the block or cylinder head. We do not attempt to ground them through the factory harness on our own Miata installations.
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Rechecked all the wires on the connectorboard, especially the opto-, Ing1, Ign2, Fuel Pump etc, and they all look ok. Nothing looks odd with the soldering either.
I tried cold and not even a single stumble. I attached the msq and a log during cranking, but that doesn't say much I guess since it doesn't seem to include anything valuable (to my eyes). Maybe someone can give me a hint on what gauges to set up for the logger in TS? I found the trigger wizard in TS, am I supposed to verify the ignition so I'm not 60, 90, 120, degrees off for some reason? |
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Moving all the grounds for the LC-1+Gauge to a separate wire to the Ground Point 5 (intake manifolds grounding bracket) to reduce noise did little to change things. But warming it up with the stock ECU (so not completely cold) made it stumble and catch sometimes (but not enough to "leave" the starter).
I know somethings work: it smells of gas Cooling fan can be turned on/off by setting the initial values. VICS clicks when altering the value But no strobe light available to check timing or spark. Coils and Injectors seems to be undamaged though since it works fin with the stock ECU. I hope someone have some clue what to try tomorrow (need some sleep and work until then). Just checked the harness too and all the relevant wires are there (colors for the Ign, Inj, Cam, Crank match), but no clutch switch and no rear O2 (no EGR Boost and no FTP makes sense since these use the rear O2), and two extra red/white in positions 1J and 3P (which are not in my US diagram). This an Euro 1999 btw. |
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