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Old 09-12-2009, 10:40 PM   #181
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Who knows, I might give it another try - it still bothers me in principle... It doesn't do PID control. You can't just say "I'd sure like it if it responded to the RPM being too low by opening the valve more", you can only put in numbers they say works. Which is how the last set worked, and worked poorly.
Really? I swear, I saw PID control available under the settings there. It should be under the PID settings. They did say they fixed the idle, blah blah blah, but you never know until you try it ..eh.

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Everytime they put out new code it's got *something* worse than the previous. Not to say that overall it isn't worth doing, but you have to keep it in mind. I'll probably upgrade myself in a bit due to "improved AEA settings" (or is it EAE?) which are supposed to run faster. The simple one worked amazingly well but after the "10x change for sensitivity" my tires don't chirp whenever I touch the gas anymore.

Ok, enough MS-II code bashing. :-)
Lol, I sure hope its not the case with the idle this time. Well for one thing, they did get the CL Boost control working, as far as ive seen. Ive got a new Boost control solenoid, im going to post some pictures of it soon.

About the EAE (Enhanced Accel Enrichment), school me on it. Whats it do and why is it so useful. Im lost with wtf "Sucked-from-Walls" or "Adhere-to-Walls" constants are.


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I have a long cable which locates the MS behind the passenger glovebox. I used to strap it to the AC box, which was excellent. Easy to reach, gently suspended, short vacuum lines... Then I took out the AC, and moved the MS to high on the wall of the transmission tunnel, parallel to it, in the passenger footwell. Sometimes people kick out the serial adapter now, and once it rotated down due to a loose screw, the DB-37 came partway out, only enough to disable the fuel pump, and it took me a long time to figure out why - AFTER my tow home (I thought the FP broke on the road).

I do remember checking the MS + board, with no cable, looked like it would fit above the steering column, but never figured out just how I would mount it. I've trimmed the tie downs on the OEM harness so I could reach the plug nearly anywhere and it made a big difference. Perhaps you need to free the beast as well.
Now that I think about it, it would have been a better idea to have made a relay cable that was long enough to reach so I can place the damn thing in the glove box. It was have left a lot more space up under the dash, not that space is a problem anymore. Its just easier to work with with less **** up there.

Trimming the Tie downs? So the harness plugs have a lot more room to move? I have to twist the damn plugs to make it fit just right, and its getting annoying. The board sits strangely under the dash, but if I try to move it, it's putting unnecessary strain on the harness.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:36 PM   #182
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Really? I swear, I saw PID control available under the settings there. It should be under the PID settings. They did say they fixed the idle, blah blah blah, but you never know until you try it ..eh.
Oh, they "have" it, they've "had" it forever. Every time they "fix" it, they say it wasn't working before, but its perfect now. And then they do it again and do it again. Whatever. If you get it working, post your settings. I've had several different versions of their code "working", but never have I had an idle so smooth and perfect and that never EVER stalls as warmup mode.

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Lol, I sure hope its not the case with the idle this time. Well for one thing, they did get the CL Boost control working, as far as ive seen. Ive got a new Boost control solenoid, im going to post some pictures of it soon.
I am a bit tempted to try the boost code - I have a solenoid but I haven't run it in forever since the manual one works so very well. It's super fast. Lately I'm annoyed though with more overshoot than I used to have an the target not being an absolute number but dependent on conditions.

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About the EAE (Enhanced Accel Enrichment), school me on it. Whats it do and why is it so useful. Im lost with wtf "Sucked-from-Walls" or "Adhere-to-Walls" constants are.
There's lots to read on that. Supposedly it works better. In the past nothing could compete with the simple way, but so far I've found that to be broken....

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Now that I think about it, it would have been a better idea to have made a relay cable that was long enough to reach so I can place the damn thing in the glove box. It was have left a lot more space up under the dash, not that space is a problem anymore. Its just easier to work with with less **** up there.

Trimming the Tie downs? So the harness plugs have a lot more room to move? I have to twist the damn plugs to make it fit just right, and its getting annoying. The board sits strangely under the dash, but if I try to move it, it's putting unnecessary strain on the harness.
Huh, I didn't know it was so tight. Yeah, there's tape and clips and all the rest. Pull them all and you'll be able to move the plugs all over the place.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:40 PM   #183
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I guess I gotta read up on EAE. We really need an MSII/MSIII sub forum IMO.

This thread (and all other threads connected) is becoming the number one resource for settings up MSII on NB's and other cars ^_^

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Old 09-13-2009, 03:14 PM   #184
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Totally agree. There's a lot to it.

Just start without EAE and you can get to it later. :-)
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:25 PM   #185
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This thread (and all other threads connected) is becoming the number one resource for settings up MSII on NB's and other cars ^_^
I suspect that there are many who have read this thread without posting, looking for data to use for their own set up.

My idle valve wasn't working correctly yesterday, so we unplugged it. It would open up when I burned in an msq change and I'd idle really high. But it wouldn't work otherwise. We opened up the bypass screw to maintain 1000 rpm. To be honest, it's really not bad that way.

Abe did you scope your idle valve frequency from the stock computer? I copied your settings.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:35 PM   #186
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My idle valve wasn't working correctly yesterday, so we unplugged it. It would open up when I burned in an msq change and I'd idle really high. But it wouldn't work otherwise. We opened up the bypass screw to maintain 1000 rpm. To be honest, it's really not bad that way.

Abe did you scope your idle valve frequency from the stock computer? I copied your settings.
Didn't know you were running ms-ii, ben. :-)

I don't remember if I checked or not, but it seems to work, so I haven't worried about it too much.

You know, you can check this on the stim, right? Set it for PWM Warmup, and set an table with a lot of variation,a nd look for the LED to get brighter/darker as temp changes. Another way is the start up % is (in my case) ~60, and running is about 30, so I can see the LED get dimmer once the RPM's peak over 400 or so.

Do you have a datalog? What does it say your valve open percent is? I haven't really analyzed it beyond being sure it works. Perhaps I wrote my settings down wrong?
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:37 PM   #187
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It's only been running about 24 hours now Abe.
And really, thanks for your posts. A lot of my settings are based on yours.

I'll check a factory computer car for f, if DIY Autotune doesn't beat me to it.

There might be something weird in the 2.1.1b code for my uS controller, because it was reporting duty cycle on the dashboard, but the valve was not active. Except for when I hit burn, then the valve would open and the car would maintain a very high idle for the duration of the burn.

We'll get it sorted in short order, I'm sure.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:06 PM   #188
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Sounds like you might have it on the wrong port? Either in software or in your wiring?

Or maybe you have something utterly backwards like putting power in instead of gating power out. :-\
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:01 PM   #189
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Ok, the IAC valve should be arriving today. I do have a few questions about the mods you did on the MS board itself abe.

I know you said to jumper pins 2-3 on Q4 correct? I was reading through the manual one more time, and It said not to install Q20 and to jumper R39 if using the PWM idle valve. I noticed on your customer's build that Q20 was installed, and you had a resistor in place rather than a jumper. I dont have Q20 installed, and I have a jumper 9in place of R39. Would this make a difference in my valve working correctly?
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:07 PM   #190
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You should be alright. You don't need/want Q20 nor the jumper on R39. Both could be left open.

You did mention the valve opens when burning? That says the MS is capable of running it. Presumably D8 isn't anything weird? I guess if you were really desperate you could jumper over R19 but I wouldn't just yet.

I'll go double check the transistor can be turned on with 5V. (edit: Duh, I know it does.)

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Old 09-16-2009, 09:28 PM   #191
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nah, ben was the one with his idle opening up while burning. Mine would somewhat fall flat on its face during a burn.

There isn't anything on D8 on the MS board. I left it out per se megamanual instructions for PWM.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:36 PM   #192
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That always happens, it's how the MS is coded.

If you just put 12V on the valve with aligator clips, does it open? Try it both ways.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:58 PM   #193
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ill try it out and let you know what happens. I haven't got around to installing the other IAC yet.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:50 PM   #194
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I mean on the old valve.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:10 PM   #195
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Ill try it again with the old valve.

But what I would really like to know is if re is ANYONE else who has installed theirs yet, besides me?? I haven't heard many responses from those who has bought your board.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:17 PM   #196
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I'm curious to know, too. Several people are close, not one yet has it in. I did get Leo C's to run my car, and it controlled the idle.

<wanders off>


full res: http://abefm.smugmug.com/photos/572881712_6GoVJ-O.jpg

Looks like the transistor and resistor were in there on his board. They certainly don't seem to do anything that would help (just a scheme for limiting current) but I could be wrong...

I guess we could have Joe or Jason or someone who knows what an electron is pass judgment.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:08 AM   #197
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yea thats what caught my eye earlier. Anyone has theirs running yet? Speak up
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:46 PM   #198
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WELL ****.

Tried to use the spare IAC valve that came in. NO ******* CHANGE.

I hooked up a 12V to the pins and grounded them to see if they move. Yup. Checks out. BOTH ARE WORKING. So now I have as spare IAC 99 with throttle body. GGotta sell this off, or just keep it for good measure.

Now, there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the wiring, or the pins on the board. Im going to peer into the harness one more time to double check whats going on and to see if the pins are going to the right pins on my damn car. Ill keep you informed.

EDIT: Pins on the board check out. I just went back a few pages on the wiring of the MS.

Ok. I feel like this was all a big stupid mistake on my part. Is there a wire that's supposed to be jumpered to pin 30 on the DB connector for Idle control?

EDIT2: Examined the MS board, and pin 30 does have its own trace to D8, then from that pin on D8 to the idle collector which, instead, you put a jumper on. I am officially stumped.

Is there a way to check the transistor? Maybe the transistor was damaged?

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Old 09-17-2009, 06:37 PM   #199
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Sorry to hear that!

The first thing to check, after if the valve is good, is if there's +12V across it. Turn the car on, look measure voltage at the connector. I guess you already did and it was reasonable. Does changing the duty cycle vary the voltage?

I was thinking maybe a diode is in backwards, but that's not right. The 12V off my board is as good as 12V from somewhere else, so I'm a bit confused by all this.

I guess I would try looking on the stim, to see if the LED gets brighter and darker as you turn the clt ****. You're sure the wires aren't broken or anything?

A well sharpened paperclip or sweing needle can get into the back of the connector, you might look at it while the connector is on the IAC to see what the MS is giving it, voltage wise, or break the chain (cut a wire or aligator clips or if you're smart at the jumper block on my board) and see what kinda current you get. Should be a few amps.
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:51 PM   #200
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The first thing to check, after if the valve is good, is if there's +12V across it. Turn the car on, look measure voltage at the connector. I guess you already did and it was reasonable. Does changing the duty cycle vary the voltage?
I already checked it. This time, i started teh car and while running, I had the IAC valve unplugged. I checked the voltage, it turns out to be 14.4, about the car's current ATM.

I don't know how the voltage would change with the change in duty cycle... would the resistance on the return wire fluctuate instead?

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I was thinking maybe a diode is in backwards, but that's not right. The 12V off my board is as good as 12V from somewhere else, so I'm a bit confused by all this.
Yea, its not the diodes. I made sure I didn't make a real stupid mistake like that.

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I guess I would try looking on the stim, to see if the LED gets brighter and darker as you turn the clt ****. You're sure the wires aren't broken or anything?
Thats the thing, I dont have a stim to test this out. :( Im sure the wires aren't broken, the car started up and idled fine before the switch to MSII. Its gotta be something on the board.

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A well sharpened paperclip or sweing needle can get into the back of the connector, you might look at it while the connector is on the IAC to see what the MS is giving it, voltage wise, or break the chain (cut a wire or aligator clips or if you're smart at the jumper block on my board) and see what kinda current you get. Should be a few amps.
i could try this out. Is there a way to check the NPN on the board to make sure its working?

I also checked if i have continuity on my relay cable, checks out ok. It has to be something on the adapterboard. I don't see where it could fail on the MS side.
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