Anyone wanna give my fuel and spark tables a look over? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #1
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Default Anyone wanna give my fuel and spark tables a look over?

Its kinda late I guess since I've been driving the car for over a year as is, but how do they look? I'm really not sure how to interpret the tables, so obviously nothing jumps out at me. I just wanted to see if anyone had any input on wether things looked good, bad, okay and if I should change anything. Sorry for the noobish question...I'm finally trying to make sense of it all slowly but surely


CspenceFuelTable.jpg?t=1269900661

CspenceSparkTable.jpg?t=1269900695
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:17 PM   #2
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You could add more spark up top.... And change your table so you have more boosted cells to adjust instead of jumping from 160kpa to 210kpa
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:18 PM   #3
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Timing map needs work. You are giving up a lot in boost and your idle cells. My map is pretty conservative but has quite a bit more advance in spots than yours does. I DD this on a stock 1.6 block @10.5psi on a 50 trim t04e:
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
You could add more spark up top.... And change your table so you have more boosted cells to adjust instead of jumping from 160kpa to 210kpa
Thats true, it's not really maximizing the full resolution of the table....Is there any logical reason why one might have done that?
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:25 PM   #5
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Timing map needs work. You are giving up a lot in boost and your idle cells. My map is pretty conservative but has quite a bit more advance in spots than yours does. I DD this on a stock 1.6 block @10.5psi on a 50trim t04e:
I was thinking the same thing about the idle cells....
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:37 PM   #6
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:49 PM   #7
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Seems like everyone is pulling more spark than I....Mine's probably so conservative since I'm running 18psi. I'm starting to wonder if I'd be better off running 12-15psi and be more agressive with my timing. Hows the fuel look?
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cspence View Post
Seems like everyone is pulling more spark than I....Mine's probably so conservative since I'm running 18psi. I'm starting to wonder if I'd be better off running 12-15psi and be more agressive with my timing. Hows the fuel look?
How does your log look . It increases the way it should, but its hard to tell just from looking at the table b/c those numbers don't really mean much outside of the context of your settings.

Don't think of timing as 'conservative' as a blanket statement. You can still keep your boost level high and increase the timing in the lower cells to give yourself a bigger midrange. If you find that you can hit your desired power level at lower boost, even better .
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:59 PM   #9
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did you make this on a dyno? If you're running X* at 4500rpm then you can most likely run x+3 at higher RPM, but the advance is really dependant upon MBT. I think the general values you have are a good starting point, but you could use more 100+ kpa cells and less vacuum cells in the grand scheme of things. I run low comp and run similar values, just a touch higher, roughly 5* retarded from MBT due to my car's life on a racetrack.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:09 PM   #10
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You should really get on a dyno and see some numbers. IMO 15psi and 18* will give you more hp than 18psi and 10*
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
You should really get on a dyno and see some numbers. IMO 15psi and 18* will give you more hp than 18psi and 10*
Agreed, but you need to account for timing belt variances and the 180* sensor triggers. I still want a proper crank wheel.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
did you make this on a dyno? If you're running X* at 4500rpm then you can most likely run x+3 at higher RPM, but the advance is really dependant upon MBT. I think the general values you have are a good starting point, but you could use more 100+ kpa cells and less vacuum cells in the grand scheme of things. I run low comp and run similar values, just a touch higher, roughly 5* retarded from MBT due to my car's life on a racetrack.
No, this was the tune that was loaded on my car when I bought it. I know I'll probably catch some ****, but what is MBT? You definitly have a good point about having more 100+kpa cells, I'm not really sure why the table was set up like that. You would think that you would want the most control over the settings where it counts....

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Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
You should really get on a dyno and see some numbers. IMO 15psi and 18* will give you more hp than 18psi and 10*
I really do wanna get on a dyno...but I just want to have someone really proficient with MS to "fine" tune it. I'll tell ya, it'll be nice to meet up with everyone so I can see how other setups run compared to mine. Its hard to understand how well or bad a car is running when there's nothing to compare it to. I mean, I could be "missing out" on some hidden power or I could be pretty much where I should be....Thats how I feel at least
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:43 PM   #13
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So would this proposed table be a little better in theory? All I did was bump up my idle cells and then changed the kpa scale so I utilized the whole table...Looking at it now, it looks like I could almost change my rpm scale so I have more resolution in a usable rpm, not 500 or 8000 rpm. If I did that I could get rid of the jump from 1600 rpm to 3000 rpm and also probably get more resolution between 3000 and 6000 rpm.

CURRENT:
CspenceSparkTable.jpg?t=1269900695

PROPOSED:
CspencePropsedSparkTable.jpg?t=1269916847

Last edited by Cspence; 03-30-2010 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:52 PM   #14
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God, I knew it was only a matter of time till all these noob questions came out of me. Looking at my VE table, how does MS know what to supply for fuel at idle if the rpm scale on the table starts at 1000rpm (and I'm idling at 800). I presume it just estimates those values, but it'd probably be benificial to have control over them, no?
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:12 AM   #15
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Not megasquirt but here is my map.

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Old 03-30-2010, 12:36 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I still want a proper crank wheel.

Give me 3 months.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:29 AM   #17
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Give me 3 months.
Put me on the list.



Cspence,

It does extrapolate off the table, so it follows the timing trend of the last two cells over for that pressure row, giving you a reasonable advance number for anything off the graph.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:52 AM   #18
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Chris my friend used to work at a BMW and VW performance shop in startford, and he's boss is still cool with him so he gets killer deals on using the shop... In 2-3 weeks I'm gonna hit the dyno for really cheap like $50-100 for 2-3 hours... I'll ask him and see if we can rent it the whole day for cheap and tune both our cars perfectly... For vacumm, cruise and boosted cells. Are you down with OPP?
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:29 AM   #19
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Why are you giving yourself so many cruise rows on your ignition table? You pretty much have the same timing for your 100-90-80 rows, so why not combine them and give yourself better control at various boost levels...


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Old 03-30-2010, 10:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cspence View Post
No, this was the tune that was loaded on my car when I bought it. I know I'll probably catch some ****, but what is MBT? You definitly have a good point about having more 100+kpa cells, I'm not really sure why the table was set up like that. You would think that you would want the most control over the settings where it counts....



I really do wanna get on a dyno...but I just want to have someone really proficient with MS to "fine" tune it. I'll tell ya, it'll be nice to meet up with everyone so I can see how other setups run compared to mine. Its hard to understand how well or bad a car is running when there's nothing to compare it to. I mean, I could be "missing out" on some hidden power or I could be pretty much where I should be....Thats how I feel at least
MBT = max brake torque. You reach a point on the dyno where adding spark advance no longer adds output...the point where the output ceases increasing is MBT. You will also have generally higher spark values as RPM increases due to piston speed which is faster than the flame-speed (think of the air and fuel burning, rather than exploding).

Dyno tuning is not difficult. Go to the dyno with a fuel table that hits your AFR targets perfectly, then put load on the dyno in for each rpm column, and then focus on one load cell, then increase spark in that load cell and look at the dyno monitor to see if output in creases. Do this until you get no more increase or detonation, then back off from MBT a safe value. I'd move back 2* for a street car or 4*+ for a track car.

Use the Polski det cans and you will win at lyphe.
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