Anyone wanna give my fuel and spark tables a look over? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2010, 11:43 PM   #41
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,072
Total Cats: 1
Default

After some thought, I figured I'd see if I could come up with a new "base" spark table by combining my existing one and the example posted...up top I figured I'd stay closer to my existing settings since I havn't had any catastrophic issues with it. I'm thinking that this may be a better starting point than the table that is loaded in my car now, any thoughts, concerns, recommendations? Any and all feedback would be appreciated!

ProposedSparkTable.jpg?t=1270089638
Cspence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:03 AM   #42
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

Moaaarrr timming! Up top at least 16* and tune your fuel before you tune your spark
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:04 AM   #43
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,072
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
Moaaarrr timming! Up top at least 16* and tune your fuel before you tune your spark
I'm just a nervous nelly, lol. Yea, I figured dialing in the fuel would be the first order of business. Whats the best technique? Start it off rich (already the case for me) and then slowly scale the table back to get my afr's where I want them?
Cspence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 08:41 AM   #44
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

Yeah you gotta do logs of different stages of boost and rpms and start adjusting it... Idk if MS has auto tune but the link does so I auto tune it first and then from there I do logs and adjust.... It's way easier to do it on a dyno or with a friend on the passanger seat and laptop. It's time consuming and a pain but the more you understand it the more fun it gets. Btw what does your AF target table look like?
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 09:57 AM   #45
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cspence View Post
I'm just a nervous nelly, lol. Yea, I figured dialing in the fuel would be the first order of business. Whats the best technique? Start it off rich (already the case for me) and then slowly scale the table back to get my afr's where I want them?
I already told you what to do and how to do it with specifics. Waste time and money, possibly damage your car on the dyno, I don't care.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 10:07 AM   #46
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

^^^ he's on stock internals so I don't think he wants to do it the way you do... Finding MBT on a stock motor is not good IMO...your running like 22* up top IIRC and his motor will self destruct at that much timming
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 10:59 AM   #47
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
^^^ he's on stock internals so I don't think he wants to do it the way you do... Finding MBT on a stock motor is not good IMO...your running like 22* up top IIRC and his motor will self destruct at that much timming
You're an idiot. You have no clue what's going on, and probably have no business tuning a car. You will also never see a nude woman in your life. I never told him to run my spark table, only the process to find MBT at safe AFR's.

Please, explain to us why "finding MBT" will cause damage. I really want to hear this. I also look forward to people taking advice from ricers with Cracker Jack, anime trash wheels from the Hella AIDS crew.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:21 PM   #48
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

Im not a pro at tunning but my car has been turbo'd for 4 traes and never blew my motor so i say I'm not to bad at tunning. I'm not a race car driver so I don't need light wheels, I like my rice wheels. At least I'm not like the other idiots who need 195s and alot of camber to be hella flush bullshit.
I'm not gonna start e-thugging like you do but I would put my life on it that Ive seen and **** way more ***** then you ever did. Jerking off looking out the window of a second floor doesn't count as getting laid. Anyways we are all here to learn and take advice , if you remember correctly you had no clue about anything a year ago and now you learned and try to put people down to make you feel better about your self. We all know you have a low self of steem so that's why you need to put people down....I don't have any problems with anyone here so relax and instead of putting me down try to be more productive and teach me.



Alright I'm over it, I tought MBT would be like if I found that 18* at like 4-4.5 rpm 18psi was the max timing I could run without detonation and gaining torque so set the timming back to like 15* at 4500rpm 18psi to be safe and then I could add 5* towards redline... Example 15* at 4k...17* at 5k...19* at 6k...20* at 7k.... Now that was the way I thought you explained it and if it's wrong discard what I said and please explain to me.... So that's why I said that doing it that way wasn't safe cause he would be running 20* at 18psi
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:24 PM   #49
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

MBT is where you stop making power by adding advance (with regards to timing).

You tune to MBT or detonation, whichever happens first, then come back whatever you decide your safety factor is.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:57 PM   #50
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
Im not a pro at tunning but my car has been turbo'd for 4 traes and never blew my motor so i say I'm not to bad at tunning. I'm not a race car driver so I don't need light wheels, I like my rice wheels. At least I'm not like the other idiots who need 195s and alot of camber to be hella flush bullshit.
I'm not gonna start e-thugging like you do but I would put my life on it that Ive seen and **** way more ***** then you ever did. Jerking off looking out the window of a second floor doesn't count as getting laid. Anyways we are all here to learn and take advice , if you remember correctly you had no clue about anything a year ago and now you learned and try to put people down to make you feel better about your self. We all know you have a low self of steem so that's why you need to put people down....I don't have any problems with anyone here so relax and instead of putting me down try to be more productive and teach me.



Alright I'm over it, I tought MBT would be like if I found that 18* at like 4-4.5 rpm 18psi was the max timing I could run without detonation and gaining torque so set the timming back to like 15* at 4500rpm 18psi to be safe and then I could add 5* towards redline... Example 15* at 4k...17* at 5k...19* at 6k...20* at 7k.... Now that was the way I thought you explained it and if it's wrong discard what I said and please explain to me.... So that's why I said that doing it that way wasn't safe cause he would be running 20* at 18psi
I'm happy to see that you fear me and my remarkable physique. I appreciate the formal apology, and highly suggest that you stay on my good side. Gospeed said it right. This is the safe way to tune a spark table. My spark table initially had spark values that increased with RPM, but MBT showed-up to the party and told me that additional advance did nothing so I left the #'s where the dyno told me.

Adjusting a spark table without a dyno is too dangerous for my money.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 12:58 PM   #51
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

^^ yeah and that's why I said 4-4.5k rpm
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 01:19 PM   #52
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,072
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
Alright I'm over it, I tought MBT would be like if I found that 18* at like 4-4.5 rpm 18psi was the max timing I could run without detonation and gaining torque so set the timming back to like 15* at 4500rpm 18psi to be safe and then I could add 5* towards redline... Example 15* at 4k...17* at 5k...19* at 6k...20* at 7k.... Now that was the way I thought you explained it and if it's wrong discard what I said and please explain to me.... So that's why I said that doing it that way wasn't safe cause he would be running 20* at 18psi
Thats how I understood it as well.

In my proposed table I figured to be even on the safer side I'd only go up another 2-3* toward redline (Rather than having it stay the same like it is on my current table). I also kept Brain's recommendation about having less cruising cells and more boosted ones....Is this table right or optimal, I have no idea. I was just trying to come up with a table that was similar to what I have now that might be a little better without causing issues. I figure it might be a few weeks till I could do it properly on the dyno...maybe I should just leave it alone for now

Hustler and everyone else, could you post up your tables? I'd like to look at them for comparison and so I can see more of the logic that went into making them
Cspence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 01:30 PM   #53
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cspence View Post
Thats how I understood it as well.

In my proposed table I figured to be even on the safer side I'd only go up another 2-3* toward redline (Rather than having it stay the same like it is on my current table). I also kept Brain's recommendation about having less cruising cells and more boosted ones....Is this table right or optimal, I have no idea. I was just trying to come up with a table that was similar to what I have now that might be a little better without causing issues. I figure it might be a few weeks till I could do it properly on the dyno...maybe I should just leave it alone for now

Hustler and everyone else, could you post up your tables? I'd like to look at them for comparison and so I can see more of the logic that went into making them
I will have to post mine later tonight. I posted on in another thread but its from the wrong thread, I'll have to post it later tonight.

The spark advance concept is very simple:
Load up the steady-state dyno at a given wheel speed/engine RPM
open the spark table
pick a cell you want to adjust and apply the throttle so you hit that cell (it should be highlighted by megatune to indicate that you're on that cell)
look at the dyno and see how much output you're making there
add 2* advance and burn
apply throttle to hit the same load cell and see if output increased
keep doing this until you get no more increase in power (welcome to MBT), or hear detonation
back off 2* or so for safety, more if you want more headroom, like me.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 01:56 PM   #54
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

You don't wanna see hustlers table your ***** will shrink
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 02:01 PM   #55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 224
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
You don't wanna see hustlers table your ***** will shrink
Like a turtle in danger!
miatamike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 02:21 PM   #56
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,838
Total Cats: 1,787
Default

you also need to think about how you enter boost....

no reason to drop the timing off so fast...this is why mine does what it does:



now look how smooth the IGN retards as I get into boost

Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 03:37 PM   #57
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
you also need to think about how you enter boost....

no reason to drop the timing off so fast...this is why mine does what it does:



now look how smooth the IGN retards as I get into boost

I did what the dyno told me, but a "drop" in spark angle from 4200-4700 is common due to target MAP and piston speed.

I really want to work on advancing spark in the vacuum cells but not really sure how to do it properly.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 09:12 PM   #58
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,072
Total Cats: 1
Default

Well I just got back from a crash course in learning how important timing is! Maybe I'm just plain stupid or maybe I just have some brass ***** . I've been putsing with my cops for the past few days and today I just decided to give up for now since I can't for the life of me get the car to start and idle smoothly when they are cold (Hot its perfect). I decided to change my plugs, throw in my stock coil and give data logging a try / mess with the polski det cans. Anyways, half way through my ride I though, **** it, I have a pretty good idea on what the motor should sound like on a "safe" tune, why dont I just plug in the values from 's table (even though I know I could be playing with fire) and see how it goes. I mean whats the worst that could happen, I could have to build my motor and call AAA. DAMN! like night and ******* day. Seriously, it feels like a completely different car. It builds boost much faster, idles / cruises seamlessly, coolant temps dropped by 35*, and my butt dyno definitly picked up on some extra power. Now dont get me wrong, I didn't just load the table and rip ****....I went to a few very rural straights and eased into the throttle a few times keeping an eagle eye on my wb and listening as hard as I could with the det cans (remembering what the motor sounded like with the original table loaded). After a few passes I slowly worked my way up to some full boost runs and I've been grinning ever since. The car still runs rich and I know the tune could probably still use ALOT of work, but its much better than what I originally had. I feel like I'm babbling now, so I'll shut up....I'm just so damn excited!

Lets hope that this post isn't followed by a, "I think my motor is blown" thread, cross your fingers for me
Cspence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 09:37 PM   #59
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connect-I-Cut
Posts: 1,431
Total Cats: 0
Default

Now it's time to turn your boost down a little... I think 18 psi is pushing it a little, have fun and don't blow it before the car show next week! We got one down we don't need another one lol
miataspeed2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 12:31 AM   #60
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 2,072
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed2005 View Post
Now it's time to turn your boost down a little... I think 18 psi is pushing it a little, have fun and don't blow it before the car show next week! We got one down we don't need another one lol
Just did, I took out one of my wastegate springs, so I should be at like 12psi now. I'ma see how I like it and might just run it like that for now. I'd much rather have peace of mind than to push things. What I should do is hook up my tru boost solenoid so I can change my boost on the fly should the need arise, lol.
Cspence is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM
01-05 Fab9 PNP COPs (used) FrankB Miata parts for sale/trade 6 09-30-2015 12:48 PM
"Chimney Ethanol" E100 MiataGarage Engine Performance 5 09-30-2015 12:04 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.