Brain diypnp ms2. Timing/Start issue. I've totally messed up. pls help - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-17-2011, 12:47 AM   #1
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Default Brain diypnp ms2. Timing/Start issue. I've totally messed up. pls help

Hi, the gist of the problem is I need Brain's base map for my setup. I'm hoping to heck he will see this and chime in and send me the base map I've lost/screwed up beyond belief.

My setup is as follows:
91 Eunos roadster from japan
1.6 motor
T25 turbo
RX7 460 injectors
DIY Techedge wideband
Brain built DIYPNP MS2 (I believe its MS2. Built last May by Brain)

Here is what happened. I was planning to turbo my car last year and post this awesome thread before I hit 10 posts with my turbo all in and running. Well I finally got around to it a year later and I got finished enough to start it last night. I had told Brain my setup and he kindly put in a good setup for me to start with. So I plugged it in and it fired up first try and ran smooth. I was fricken thrilled. It was late at night but I looked at the install pdf from brain and calibrated the TPS and IAT and CLT sensors. At that point I realized I wasn't going to get it going that night even though it was running well. Still a bit left to check and do... Not to mention tuning. So I had my pop drive me back to my apt downtown as I've been using his garage to do this. I had an second car but I lost it so I'm in a pickle. Anyway, tonight I get my pop give me a ride down and fire it up again. I had looked at the pdf guide some more and went about setting the timing. The timing was quite a bit off 10 deg when I had it on fixed so I adjusted it with the trigger.... It started to run a little worse and seemed like I had done something wrong. I was opening up different control sections and I'm not sure if I hit something by mistake or what but all of a sudden I was pooched and then my Tuner studio started giving me errors. So I say F this and try to reload my other MSQ file from last night. But I realize I've been saving to that file. FRICK I then realize I never saved Brain's original file. So at that point I'm pooched. I keep playing with the timing and stuff but its right bolloxed. I've also been too excited to get it going and I've been burning to the controller when I shouldn't be. Such as the timing trigger and initially I was putting in the IAT and CLT settings with the car on. But I had done it since with the car off and saved. So at this point I start making things worse. I start trying other maps and my Tuner studio keeps giving me tons of errors. By the end I couldn't even recalibrate my TPS... It had my old settings but wouldn't pickup the tps. So the car turns over but won't fire up or even pop. And at this point I have tried to push a DIY msq from autotune to the controller but it changed all the settings and everything is pooched.

So. I'm not sure if I've broken this megasquirt by getting too excited and doing things too fast or if it will work again if I get the good base map that Brain put on it for me back. I'm also carless and have been working on this thing solid now for a heck of a long time... I also lost my second car the other day so I have to make my old pop drive me to and forth.

Maybe I had false confidence because I turbo'd a VW once and built MS1 and ran it on there with Megatune and was familiar with that.

UGH I'm super discouraged. It was so close to going Running so smooth and I totally F'd it up.

If anyone can help me out I would be most appreciative. And Brain if you see this and would send me the basemap you had included I would owe you big time.

If people would rather send msq's to email my email is [email protected]

Thanks
Sandy
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:16 PM   #2
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You could start with the DIYPNP base map for a 1.6, which can be downloaded here:

http://diyautotune.com/diypnp/apps/n...3-16b6-mt.html

If you scale it for your injector size, it should at least be in the ballpark.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:31 PM   #3
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Yeah, thanks for the reply Matt. I burned that 460cc msq from the website in last night and it almost started but was still super F'd.

It just ran so well right off the start I am hoping to just reaload the settings it came with and start everything over again but not be an idiot and be more careful.

If anyone is running a 1.6 with 460cc injectors and bought a Brain DIYPNP I would be forever grateful for the msq that came on it...

crap, my buddy originally ordered the MS for me and he lent me his login to send Brain a pm... sorry for the name confusion.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:24 PM   #4
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Incase anyone is following the MS2 was completely frozen after I tried to get it going after work... You couldn't even get it to connect to Tunerstudio.

My buddy who has a NA 1.6 DIYPNP MS1 came by and we were able to reload the firmware. I remembered to pull the ignitor before we loaded the firmware. I believe this is the firmware I loaded. "ms2extra_alpha_303u_20100522.zip" or whatever was in the last DIYAUTOTUNE software release...

Then the MS2 was able to see the laptop again so we tried to load up the 460cc base map that Matt had linked to above. I had tried it before but at that point everything had gone wrong. Anyway. Even with the newly reloaded firmware and that base map the car still did not start. It won't even pop which is strange. We tried to load a few other maps after that in hopes that we could sort out what I did to the original Brain settings.

All of this was to no avail though. Wasn't able to get it going at all. The map that I think is closest to what Brain had provided kept telling me the Crank RPM was way too high at like 11000 and change. It would say it has to be less then 3000. Which makes sense and when cranking we could see the occasional tick of the RPM meter to 160 ish so we changed it to near there a few times... 300/200/150/100... but none of that worked. We tried to set the timing to fixed at 10 degrees but no dice there either.

I think the megasquirt is ok... The laptop recognizes it and allows me to change the firmware. Is there something else I could have fried? At no point did I update the firmware with the ignitor in... But with that said during the first day or so I was loading all sorts of msqs which were not from the same version and stuff on.

Anyway. Thanks to Matt for responding. Gave me the motivation to go back tonight and keep trying. I've been working on turboing this car for like 3 weeks straight now every night and weekend.

If anyone has any ideas. Please don't hesitate to post or PM or email me.

Thanks






Last edited by sandman; 05-18-2011 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:25 AM   #5
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OK, I've just done another pile of reading and it would appear likely the overzealous msq burning etc may have been enough to fry the ignitor.

Hopefully I can get my hands on one of those tomorrow and try that tomorrow night.

Could I have fried other things too?
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:36 PM   #6
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Well its tougher then I thought to find an ignitor in this city so I've purchased a COP setup which I will install as soon as it gets here. Any help on how to adjust the settings of the megasquirt to handle them would be appreciated.
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:51 PM   #7
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From what I understand... If you are set up for stock coils, there should be no issues running the ms2 with the COPs in wasted spark. You should eventually change your dwell settings in the MS2, but get it running first. Build the harness and have at it!

The COP's FAQ is here: https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/upgrading-coil-plugs-all-years-cop-writeup-12704/

More info can be found buried in this behemoth thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/cop-thread-4756/

TL;DR
Quote:
Aftermarket ECU owners:

dwell these at 3.5ms cranking, 2.5ms at 12v
Hope that helps!

Ninja edit: I couldn't actually say HOW to change the dwell, I'm just saying you should be OK to try it without changing it for now. Do you know if Braineack is building these with the revised "no-pop" startup configuration, per Joe's thread HERE?

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Old 05-19-2011, 11:57 AM   #8
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EO2K, thanks for the helpful reply I'm super scared to mess it up again so I'm going to be hella careful. I'm not sure if is building that revised setup in now. I will open my box and check and let you know.

COPS should be here tomorrow or Saturday I'm hoping so I will post again once I get this thing working. And maybe a few more pics too.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:48 PM   #9
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COPs are cake as long as you take your time, read the beast thread, read the faq. If you have questions, read it again before you ask. I'm pretty much in the same boat with the COPs. With an OEM 99-00 coilpack pushing $300, COPs is an alternative that should prove to be not only a performance upgrade, but (in my 99-00 case) better reliability as well.

The only downside I can think of with your particular case, is that you have just added an unknown to your setup, and this may make troubleshooting more difficult. Of course, if your coilpack is fried and you cant reasonably get another, you are kinda stuck. Any chance you know anyone with a similar year Miata that can loan you there coilpack for testing? (Disconnect it before buuuurrrrnnnning, of course )

If you bought the unit directly from Braineack, he should be able to tell you about how the ignition is built.

Don't forget the 1k resistor, the cap, and a good solid ground for that harness!! Good luck!
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:12 AM   #10
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had you tried to connect stock ECU and look for a spark in every cilinder?


I have flashed Firmware without unpluging the ignitors and now it look like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbpUvLdjuQ8

but in my case, i'v connected stock ecu and found that there is a spark in every cilinder, so ignitors should be OK.

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Old 05-30-2011, 04:35 PM   #11
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Ugh, ok update. I've got the Toyota cops all installed and they are all firing when I pull them out to check. So spark is good. You can smell the fuel when you pull the plugs so there is fuel too. But I can't seem to get it to run. Brain helped me with a basemap but still no dice. Does anyone know if I have to change any of the megasquirt settings to use the toyota cops?

I'm going to go solder in the cops now as I only had them twisted and taped to test. I put in the 1K resister as per Lazzers wiring map too. I'll upload a picture in a bit when I'm done the soldering.

I may have to throw this car out :( no worky in long time

edit: ok here are the pics of the cops in and soldered. i need a new battery cause all this cranking has bolloxed mine. So once I run and get the battery I'm back to the drawing board. hmm. I'm suprised it doesn't at least pop a bit since there is fuel and spark.

I'll post up my msq so anyone who wants to take a look can. Thanks to all






Last edited by sandman; 05-30-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:31 PM   #12
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Well, I'm out of ideas. The only thing I can think of is maybe there is something wrong with the cranking. Cause when I crank it for a good while the MS tach only blips to like 118rmp or something like that but doesn't stay there. Like it will blip for a half a second for every 5 seconds you constantly crank.

There is fuel and spark but no pops or anything. I thought maybe the timing belt had broken in all the cranking so I checked but its A OK.

I'm pretty much stumped so if anyone has any ideas toss them my way. Here is my MSQ if anyone wishes to take a look.
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File Type: msq 2011-05-29_18.35.10.msq (79.1 KB, 61 views)
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:30 PM   #13
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under Tach input/ignition settings.

you have skip pulses set to 20 change it to 3.

It should also be falling edge and the spark output should be going high...this is probably where you fried the ignitor.

change those three settings and report back.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:23 PM   #14
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Ok just got here... changed those settings and it still didn't even pop. So i pulled the plugs again and turned it over and no spark. cops 1&4 spark just as you are stopping the cranking...

hmm, when before the spark was strong and on all four switching back and forth from 1&4 to 2&3.

Also there is no tach reading whatsoever on the tuner studio tach.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Also there is no tach reading whatsoever on the tuner studio tach.

something is still wrong with the settings then. The car wont run until the MS can see determine the RPMs from the CAS correctly.

Click the diagnositics tab, click start. crank the car until you see green/blue/red lines on the chart on the right.

post the screenshot of the results.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:59 PM   #16
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Hmm, I've been digging through MS2 and there doesn't seem to be that many settings so i'm totally confused on what it could be. I'm wondering if I could have blown the CAS when setting the timing initially or something?

Anyway, when trying to fire with falling edge there is barely any spark and the MS tach does nothing. When you use the Rising edge the MS tach seems to blip to 167 ish for a second while you are cranking but it doesn't hold there even if you keep cranking.

I've taken a whole bunch of screen shots and I'll post them below in hopes we can figure something out. Not even a pop when I'm cranking :(
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File Type: msq 2011-06-01_20.31.20.msq (79.1 KB, 54 views)
File Type: pdf my ms.pdf (649.9 KB, 80 views)
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:28 AM   #17
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Looking at the composite logger, that actually shows your CAS input signals.

the Green is the crank signal. the Blue is the cam signal.

the red is the errors log. every spike means it either read a tooth or was expecting a tooth.

This means you have your settings wrong, the CAS's output look correct. But the MS is unable to interept them correctly (most likely due to improper settings) and it's not syncing. Without sync the MS will not spark or fuel.

I don't even understand how your settings got so far off from the basemap in the first place.

So me a favor, I can't open msq files where I am currently, please post a sheet shot of both the ignition setting screens.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:12 PM   #18
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Sorry for the delay, i was at work and just got home to my laptop. I added a wack of other screens too incase there was something to look for in there.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman View Post
Hmm, I've been digging through MS2 and there doesn't seem to be that many settings so i'm totally confused on what it could be. I'm wondering if I could have blown the CAS when setting the timing initially or something?

Anyway, when trying to fire with falling edge there is barely any spark and the MS tach does nothing. When you use the Rising edge the MS tach seems to blip to 167 ish for a second while you are cranking but it doesn't hold there even if you keep cranking.

I've taken a whole bunch of screen shots and I'll post them below in hopes we can figure something out. Not even a pop when I'm cranking :(
Your CKP signal looks fine but the CMP signal is very noisy and triggering lots of false teeth. I'd check out the CAS wiring to the board as well as the second trigger input circuit.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:19 AM   #20
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Thanks Ben. I've checked it out and it all looks ok. I also haven't touched the wiring really since it was running initially so I wouldn't think that would be it. After not much success with the MS2 box I borrowed my buddy's MS1 Diyautotunepnp megasquirt and changed my injectors back to stock since that is what he is running to see if his MS would run my car. I didn't have the laptop going because I didn't have the cable but it runs my buddies NA great so with stock injectors it should start mine I would think.

It was the wierdest thing though. The fuel pump did not come on with his MS. I tried to start it and it actually fired enough with whatever pressure in the lines but wouldn't start. So I replugged my MS in and it would run the fuel pump. wierd. So I took his computer back to his miata and plugged it in and his fuel pump would turn on.

Super strange. So my MS runs my fuel pump. His MS runs his fuel pump. But his MS will not run my fuel pump. He has a 92 1.6 miata so there is no difference.

We may try his MS again soon to see if we get can my car going on his MS but the fuel pump issue is mind boggling.

I'm wondering if I should switch my injectors back to the 460cc ones or if I should try to get it running on the stock ones. As per my first post it did run great initially on the 460's so I may toss those back in so I don't have to change my MS fuel settings.

Brain any more thoughts?
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