Mystralhawk

Good morning,

My wife and I recently purchased a VVT motor with MS3 PNP Pro for her 95M. We have the motor installed and tried to do our first start. However the car would crank and not turn over. After doing some reading yesterday, I believe that I may have borked up the previous owner's tune since he was running firmware 1.3.4 and I upgraded MS to 1.5.1 for the additional AEM CANBUS support (I'm using an AEM 30-0310 on CANBUS). From my understanding, there were some relatively significant changes between 1.3.x and 1.5.x

So I began the process of creating/updating a basemap tune using the resources from megasquirtpnp.com and trubokitty. I had to update a few settings such as output wires and the like, but there are a few settings that I'm not quite sure what the equivalent is. I was hoping that those more knowledgeable than me can take a look at the tune and see if it makes sense for our car. Also to provide some guidance on some of these unknown settings.

The car:
1995 Miata (NA8)
2002 VVT Motor
1999 VICS Manifold
Racing Beat Header/Exhaust
FM 36-2 Trigger Wheel
AEM 30-0310 Wideband

• Over-Run Fuel Cut
  • Highest RPM to Re-Engage Fuel:(rpm) - does this value of 1800 seem appropriate? For some reason TunerStudio populated it originally with some crazy high number.
• Ignition Options / Wheel Decoder
  • I'm using the FM 36-2 trigger wheel
  • I changed Ignition Input Capture to Falling Edge
  • I saw that in the basemap file, Cam Input is CMP so I switched it to CMP. Is this correct?
  • Also, I noticed that Flip Polarity On Hi-Res Tach / Cam is set to Normal on the megasquirtpnp.com basemap, on the trubokitty basemap it is inverted. Which should I use?
• Air Conditioning Idle-Up
  • I'm not sure if my Idle-Up Input is correct. On one of the older basemaps I see that it is Datalog In. But I don't see that option in the 1.5 firmware.

I appreciate the help. Feeling a bit discouraged after not being able to start it yesterday.

Mystralhawk

Welp, just flashed the base map from the MegaSquirt and realized (after doing fuel testing) that I had the return/supply fuel lines incorrect.

Had our first start this evening and the wife and I are excited! Now to set up closed loop idle and get it all tuned up.

That being said, does anyone have any input regarding the recent tune attached?

Malic

Have you already done tuning for your injector trims?

Mystralhawk

Hey Malic, thanks for looking out. I have not touched the trims. This would be the default value from the MegaSquirtPnP.com basemap. I do see that some people have Injector Trim disabled on their maps. Since I only have one Wideband, I imagine it would make sense to disable Injector Trim and just have all of them be the same. Hopefully this is correct?

irodd

iTrader: (4)

Engine states require some tuning, these values are a good start


You have alternator control is turned off


You have EGO control algorithm is Simple, usually it is for the narrow band sensors


originally NB/NB2 Idle valve works on 511Hz


this is typical NB/NB2 idle valve settings


you have a wheel diameter 66cm and 40000pulses
here typical values:

Mystralhawk

Thanks irodd! I turned Alternator control off since I'm using a FD RX7 alternator and my understanding is that it's internally regulated instead of being regulated by the ECU (similar to the NA).

Thanks for all the other pointers! I'm just getting started in this wild world of tuning with the MegaSquirt and trying to soak up as much as I can. Most of the numeric values there (aside from some minor tweaks) are from the provided basemap. However the MSPNP basemap looks to be using open loop for everything.

irodd

iTrader: (4)

I would say
everyone must read 1.5.1 firmware Manual
before staring the tuning/asking questions

Mystralhawk

Definitely some bedtime reading as I figure things out.

irodd

iTrader: (4)

I apologize for my ignorance but how to tune individual inj trim without 4 o2 sensors?

Mystralhawk

I believe he made this comment based on the tune originally having "Injector Trim = On" under Engine and Sequential Settings. Not sure why the MSPNP folk had that under their basemap setting.

Mystralhawk

Hey everyone,

So it's been a series of things since my initial post, but the long and short of it is that it starts!

The initial no start was because even though I was hearing the fuel pump prime, I had the fuel lines going the wrong way on the fuel rail for the VVT swap. I was feeding fuel in the outlet of the FPR. :P Silly me.

I was able to start it up and began trying to tune for closed loop. Which ended up being a bit of a mess because MS would say that the IAC valve was stepping and etc. but it wouldn't. Also the test mode didn't appear to work. After replacing it and not having much luck, turns out that the pins were in the plug but not far forward enough to make contact with the pins in the IAC. So fixed the pigtail and IAC is working like a champ.

I also reduced the dashpot for the IAC because I noticed that a value of 3 was making it rev higher than just above my target.

So now I'm having this weird issue (that isn't an issue now that I know what happens) but wonder if anyone else has it. When I first turn on the MS and before starting the car, it'll say throttle duty at 2%. I'll recalibrate the TPS values, but then it'll read off still, so I'll go back an recalibrate the closed value and it'll be the original value that was originally 2% off. So after watching it and testing, it appears that when I first turn on the MS, it'll read 2/3% duty but after a half minute or so, it'll go to zero (without me having to touch the calibration). Dunno if anyone else has seen this?

But now, I'm trying to get idle down (it's idling at 950 even with the air screw all the way in) and it does appear to oscillate for a while before settling. After it settled, I pulled the car into the garage and it got hung up at 1,300 RPMs.

I'm attaching the logs and the tune if anyone has any feedback.

Malic

General settings > Auto zero TPS maybe?

Mystralhawk

Hey Malic, I've tried the setting with it on and off with the same behavior.

fwman1

iTrader: (3)

2000 1.8 on MSPnP Pro. I have been on 1.5.1, and now 1.5.2 beta four.

My throttle has not exhibited a 2-3% error at startup, but I have seen it appear to initialize too high on the first startup. This would cause the engine not to enter CLI.
Turning off the engine, pausing, and restarting seems to clear it well enough to drive normally. I identified the behavior trying to do cold weather startup tuning this past winter.

I have always run Auto-zero TPS. My engine states sets idle TPS below one percent. TPS averaging lag factor is set at 80%, so not significantly smoothed.

I did try to adjust the TPS calibrations to give a slightly negative initial value, and it seems to help most of the time. I'm not sure how common it is to have to
replace the TPS.

I did think it was worth contributing that the behavior you are seeing is not unique.

Mystralhawk

Thanks so much for chiming in. I changed my engine state to 2% for it to go into CL IDLE because of the weirdness (but now that I see what's going on, I may change it back to 0.5.). What I have noticed is that I'll turn the car to the on position, but not on... wait a bit and it'll go from 2% then back to 0%. My TPS averaging lag factor is set to 50. For your negative value for TPS, did you just simply add a lower value than what the zero throttle "calibration" number is?

I had auto-zero TPS enabled for most of my testing but disabled it recently thinking it may have been the issue.

Appreciate you reaching out! Have you noticed anything in particular with my tune that jumps out compared to yours?

fwman1

iTrader: (3)

Well, I'm not sure my tuning techniques should be emulated. For the TPS setting, you would add one or two to the closed throttle value and check the result.
I have always had auto-zero tps enabled.

I will attach a copy of my tune for reference. It is 1.5.2.4 beta.
Other than somewhat undependable first starts under 50 degrees, it is pretty livable. I daily drive mostly these days, with the
occasional boosted hoon.

Mystralhawk

Hey fwman1, appreciate you attaching your tune! Looking at your tune completely reminded me that I no longer have my MAF but yet I still had it enabled.

I went ahead and enabled auto-zero again and will give it a shot tomorrow.