DIYPNP Feeler-- are you guys all using the BIPs? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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View Poll Results: Should we leave the BIPs in the DIYPNP kits or pull them and drop the price a bit?
Leave the BIP373's in the kit, we all use them. 0 0%
Pull them out of the kit and sell it cheaper, we'll buy them if we need them. 12 100.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2009, 04:16 PM   #1
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Default DIYPNP Feeler-- are you guys all using the BIPs?

Or would you like to see us drop the BIPs out of the core of the package since they aren't required much of the time (really only needed for COP conversion using COPs without their own ignitors) and drop the price of the DIYPNP kit a bit? We could probably trim roughly the retail price of the BIP kits x 4 off the DIYPNP kits, making the DIYPNP kits, $25-28 cheaper. Then for those that want the BIPs, they could buy them separately.

Just looking for a sampling of your input as there are several DIYPNP users on this forum, are you using them? Would you miss them if they were gone? Would it be a pain in the butt to have to buy them separately if you needed them?
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Old 11-04-2009, 05:33 PM   #2
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Everyone I know in miata land is running either stock ignition or the corolla COPs w/ built in ignitors, so going to VB's won't matter. Plus the VB's are insulated, are they not? So you could actually argue an increased safety benefit.
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Old 11-04-2009, 05:48 PM   #3
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VBs? like the old VB921's? Not going back to those, they burn too easily not to mention the part went obsolete. What I'm considering is removing the BIP373's if it's not common that they are used, and reducing the price of the whole kit in kind. I figure there's no need for people to pay for parts they don't need, if indeed that is the case, and maybe I'll sell more DIYPNPs with the lower pricepoint.

I could get all crazy and make the whole thing (all the extra circuits) a la carte, allowing those in the know to build just what they wanted even cheaper, but the cost savings aren't significant, and I'd confuse the crap out of alot of people. The BIP373's are a potential easy win though, if they aren't broadly needed, then I don't have to make you buy them.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:49 PM   #4
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I know this is going to be stupid. What is the BIP373 and what does it control? I might be able to add some input from my build perspective if I know what it is. Then again, it may be over my head.

Ok, in case anyone else was wondering: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...megasquirt.htm

If I am understanding correctly these would be needed to drive coils directly. In which case a miata package could be offered without these because we do not drive our coils directly, but through an ignitor of some variation. (stock or in COPs) What would the approximate price savings be? $50-$60 dollars cheaper and I don't think most miata people would by a regular MS. The diypnp is so easy, especially once more people get tunerstudio figured out.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
I know this is going to be stupid. What is the BIP373 and what does it control? I might be able to add some input from my build perspective if I know what it is. Then again, it may be over my head.
Sorry... it's an ignitor module. You can us them to directly fire coils (any kind of ignition coil, can, COP, whatever) if they don't have their own ignitors built in. On a 1990-2000 Miata for example they are not needed for a base install using the stock ignition system as would bypass them and trigger the stock ignitors, which would then fire the stock coils. On your cars they're more likely to come into play if you are ditching the stock ignition system and driving coils directly, such as a sequential COP conversion using the DIYPNP.

I think i more or less know the answer to my question before I asked, but wanted to see what you guys thought to check myself.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:06 PM   #6
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Pretty much all the cop conversions I've done here in OZ have had ignitors built in. Would the diypnp module drive them directly without the BIPs as you mentioned in the first post?
Is it just a case of bridging the breakout board?
I would be up for another MS (building another miata right now) and cheaper is always better, given the AUD takes it in the butt outside our country.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:13 PM   #7
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Most modern COPS do have the ignitors built in, some don't though. So yes you can just output the TTL output from the board to trigger your ignitors directly in that case. Wouldn't need the BIP's.
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:21 AM   #8
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I think you can drop the BIPs, at least for Miata applications. We either use the stock coils or the Toyota coils, both of which have integrated ignitors. A $25 price cut would be most welcome.

Jim
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Old 11-05-2009, 08:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
VBs? like the old VB921's? Not going back to those, they burn too easily not to mention the part went obsolete. What I'm considering is removing the BIP373's if it's not common that they are used, and reducing the price of the whole kit in kind. I figure there's no need for people to pay for parts they don't need, if indeed that is the case, and maybe I'll sell more DIYPNPs with the lower pricepoint.

I could get all crazy and make the whole thing (all the extra circuits) a la carte, allowing those in the know to build just what they wanted even cheaper, but the cost savings aren't significant, and I'd confuse the crap out of alot of people. The BIP373's are a potential easy win though, if they aren't broadly needed, then I don't have to make you buy them.
I guess I'm not 100% on how the MS drives ignition then. I thought a transistor was needed.

If not needed, and we're talking about removing the transistors, then that might cause confusion on the part of people needing to use ALED and WLED as digital outs.

I guess the other low hanging fruit is the 5V power supply. Has anyone used it?
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:35 AM   #10
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Jerry, I've built about 50 MSes now over the last three years and only built one High Output Circuit to run the ignitor-less neon coils using the BIPs.

Technically two, because the first one sorta caught on fire...
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I guess I'm not 100% on how the MS drives ignition then. I thought a transistor was needed.
You need a large switching transistor to control the current through the coil, but this transistor can be built into the coil, a separate ignition module, or built into the MS. The BIP373 is used in the third type of setup, the switching transistor inside the MS.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:52 AM   #12
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I understand that Matt. I thought there had to be a transistor between the output pin on the MS and whatever ignition solution was on the car, despite what type of solution it is. Good to know.

I assume more people will use ALED and WLED for digital outs than for spark out, and those people will need transistors.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:52 AM   #13
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let the Bips go, make the DIYPNP cheaper

I want to use COPS, so no BIPS are needed right?
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xitsam View Post
let the Bips go, make the DIYPNP cheaper

I want to use COPS, so no BIPS are needed right?
As long as the COPs you are using have ignitors built in, that's true. And even if you need the BIPs, we'll offer them separately. The total cost of adding them won't be any more than the current cost of the kit with them.
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:18 PM   #15
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Another vote for dropping the BIPS. It's awesome the board supports it, but, honestly so few people are using them.... Probably just sell two versions, $599 and $629 (or whatever the numbers are).

If someone wants some MSD coils, I've been trying to sell them for years. Perfect compliment for your BIPS. :-P
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:41 PM   #16
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Make an MSM pnp already
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:19 PM   #17
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And the results are in! Based on feedback here and elsewhere, we've pulled the BIP373s from the kit and brought the price down to $425 per kit. The BIP373s are now sold as individual kits with heat sinks and hardware.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:05 PM   #18
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Taste the democracy.
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