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Old 03-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #1
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Default General MS help please

I admit, I need some hand holding here..

Without writing a 5000 word introduction, I'll just cut to the chase:

I know a great deal about cars, mechanical concepts, engine diagnostics, troubleshooting, materials, etc but I know very little nothing about MS. Period.
And, I know Reverant is incredibly busy, and I just do not want to pester him.

So, here we go..

99 with a SC, etc.. I have been running on powercards so far.
I have decided to go with MS and bugged and pestered Dimitris till he sent me one. The thing is sitting on a shelf behind my desk as we speak.

I have no problem installing the MS, or the brand new 650cc FIC injectors.

The problem is, I honestly do not know how to get into, or initiate the MS "ceremonies" once I install everything and button the car up.

I know it will idle and even run to the hospital if I am in a dire emergency.
But, beyond that, what do I do first?

Dimitris sent me some instructions, and the first paragraph goes
"Download TunerStudio from tunerstudio.com and install. Forget anything you
may have read about MegaTune or EasyTherm, it will not work with this ECU."

Great.

Now, I would like to give you guys an example at this point:
English is my second language. There was a day when I only spoke Turkish, and were I to pick up a copy of "War and Peace" in English in those days, it would just look like gibberish to me.
Years passed, I picked up a few words here, a couple of rules there, and now, I am in a much different place.

Same goes with MS. So far, I have had nothing to do with autotune, VE tables, enrichment percentages.. So I can't make heads or tails of any of this as we speak.

I am not an idiot, in fact I happen to have a modest IQ level of 146. So, yes, I can learn - if I can just get my head into this thing somehow.

And, I am not a freeloader by any stretch of the imagination. I have been a member here for some time now, and I always have strived to contribute through what I post here. I am sure you guys understand where I am coming from with all this.

Dimitris was kind enough to provide me with a starting setup. I know it needs to be refined.

So, please help me figure out how I should proceed.
You could take your time to post a few hints, "do this and avoid that" sort of guidelines, or maybe point me in the right direction by posting links.

I have been reading MS related stuff, but I keep getting lost in too much/irrelevant/inapplicable/outdated/incompatible information.

And, thank you for your understanding...
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:56 PM   #2
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Plug it in.

Plug in laptop. Start Tunerstudio. Turn car to On, do not turn to Start.

Try to connect laptop to MS via Tunerstudio. See if you can. If you can, and everything reads like it should (I.e., temperature sensors), try to start the car.

If it starts, read up on autotune via Tunerstudio. If it doesn't, come here to pester Brainy/Reverant/et al.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:17 AM   #3
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Should I register Tunerstudio only, or get the combo deal with MegaLogViewer. Would I neeed MLW as well?
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:18 AM   #4
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In hindsight, I wish I would have purchased the combo deal.

It's not not necessary, no. But it makes life a lot easier.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
I am not an idiot, in fact I happen to have a modest IQ level of 146.
GTFO - you are overqualified for this board...

No honest - nice thing with the DIYPNP is you can try it on the bench. As I know Dimitris - he will surely already have flashed a firmware and base tune on the DIYPNP. So just get a poweradaptor and an USb to serial cable - and try to get this thing connected to your computer via Tuner Studio. (Oh - buy the combo package - both programs are well worth their money)

Then just sneek around all the settings in Tuner Studio an open up:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html#ms2

After you did this - things should be much more clear. You will still have a quadrillion of questions but we get to that specific questions later.
I am sure that Dimitris will help you out with most of your questions - he is a great guy to deal with!
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:42 AM   #6
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Well, the first thing to do is to follow my instructions to the point where the car starts and idles. 95% of the non-fuel settings will already be dialed in to the point where you will not have to mess with them, spark advance tables included.

Then autotune, that is pretty much it. So yes, purchase TunerStudio, MLV is optional.
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #7
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Well, it runs...

I just spent three days installing Reverant's MS.

I redid the entire wiring harness, fiddled with water injection, replaced all fuel lines along with the injectors, did a bunch of other work - like hardwiring an inverter/charger for the laptop - and generally took my time.

Car started on first crank once I primed the fuel lines.

There were a couple of minor problems, and Dimitris was very helpful to overcome those.

Then I drove the car like a grandma for about an hour, and autotuned the whole time, staying out of boost.

I do have questions tho...

First and foremost, when I opened VE analyzer, I had two of everything: 2 "Fuel VE Table 1", 2 "Fuel VE Table 2" (all four of them accessible) and a grayed out "Fuel VE Table 3"...
I honestly did not know what to do, and autotuned both Fuel VE Table 1 options. They had different parameters.

I turned the car off at one point, and when I started everything back up, those VE Fuel tables were gone. All I can see now is "Fuel VE Table1" and "Fuel VE Table 3". The rest is grayed out. I did nothing, except for hitting burn and closing the program and turning the car off for this thing to happen.

The car runs different. Definitely different. It is livelier, and takes less throttle input along very familiar roads compared to before. I can tell even at this stage.

I noticed a few things:

Knock control is disabled. Should I enable that?

Idle speed goes up to about 1130 RPM and stays there sometimes. Should I be worried?

I do not have decel fuel cut. AFR stays at around 14-15 and slowly goes to high 16s in extended decel. Is this intended, or do I have a setting off for that?

Also, I noticed boost control feature is enabled. Should I just turn that off since I have a SC?

Lastly, I am attaching my msq. Would you guys please comment on that in terms I would be able understand?

Thanks!
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2012-05-12_01.58.24.msq (84.6 KB, 82 views)
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #8
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May I ask what SC you have? I'm about to attempt my install of MSPnP this weekend, and I'm worried I'll screw something up.

Glad I don't have a language barrier as well, or I'd be lost.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
May I ask what SC you have? I'm about to attempt my install of MSPnP this weekend, and I'm worried I'll screw something up.

Glad I don't have a language barrier as well, or I'd be lost.
I have a hotside MP62, TDR IC, dual throttle, port water injection, 650cc injectors, oversize fuel rail, AFPR and COPs.
Also, I installed the IAT sensor on the IC outlet, in front of the radiator to prevent heatsoak issues.

Give yourself plenty of time, and go over every connection. Our cars are getting long in the tooth.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:15 PM   #10
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Brain, Rev, anyone?
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #11
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You've got mail.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
May I ask what SC you have? I'm about to attempt my install of MSPnP this weekend, and I'm worried I'll screw something up.

Glad I don't have a language barrier as well, or I'd be lost.
We have threads on this and Reverant gives you everything set-up almost pefectly, I was really impressed.
  1. Read Performance Fuel Injection Systems
  2. Follow the install instructions
  3. Calibrate gauges and sensors
  4. Turn off-enrichments and EGO correction
  5. Idle the car
  6. Manually tune the fuel table to make the car drivable
  7. Fine-tune PID idle
  8. Let VEAL do more tuning for you
  9. Start tuning enrichments and get them close
  10. Manually fine-tune the fuel table
  11. Turn on EGO-correction
  12. Fine tune enrichments and obsess over little things
  13. Dyno tune
  14. Profit.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:20 AM   #13
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Hi everyone, i'm a noob sorry to jack your thread hope you don't mind but can anyone tell me where can i read about road tune MSPNP. what to do to manually tune the fuel table to make car drivable?
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:22 PM   #14
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There is very good progress, and some weirdness going on.

I am religiously autotuning the car trying to hit as many cells as I can once I feel safe in the most visited cells.
However, after a 20-25 minute session last night, I pulled over to burn the changes to the controller.
All went well, the car was running perfectly, but it stumbled and died once I hit burn.

I cycled the key and fired up the car, and immediately noticed it was running lean. Waaay too lean.

I quickly started a datalog, and started driving as gentle as possible.
My initial reaction was a malfunctioning sensor, but it is practically brand new.
The car was running like crap, with AFR at 18 to 19.
Blipping the throttle did not help at all.
I nursed the car to a gas station to check things over in a well lit place. No major gas leaks, no disconnected anything.
Then I thought of a way to check the sensor, and removed the vacuum line to the MS with the car idling.
Sure enough, AFR readings started dipping immediately. Went as low as 9 something.
That was proof that the WB sensor had not crapped out.

I turned off the car and cycled the key a few times, to no avail.

I said **** it, and started the car back up (still ran at 18-19 AFR) and hit autotune.
Bingo.. Started correcting itself immediately.

Got back on the road and autotuned for another half hour or so.
Heard some pinging for the first time in a couple years, but AFRs came down to proper levels in as many cells as I could "visit" without risking the engine.

Still not as good as it was before the incident, but definitely recovering.

So, could you guys in the know please enlighten me as to what might have happened?

I datalogged like a madman, but the files are big. I could email them, but I guess they would be too big for me to post here (the largest one is about 4MB)

What do you guys think?

Last edited by Godless Commie; 05-16-2012 at 09:24 PM. Reason: spelink
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:56 AM   #15
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I think you need to keep tuning fuel since this is the easy part. I also think you should be happy you didn't join the EU.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #16
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Do you happen to have the datalogs of just before shuttind down and after restarting and going lean?
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Do you happen to have the datalogs of just before shuttind down and after restarting and going lean?
Unfortunately I do not have datalogs from before the "incident". I started datalogging immediately afterwards.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #18
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I have cranking issues.

Warm starts and restarts are OK.
If the car sits for an extended period I have to crank at least twice.
And, when it catches, sometimes it starts with a pop.

Fuel pump primes nicely. (The pop verifies there's fuel, anyway)
I have not touched any of the starting settings.

Should I mess with the settings at all? What would the recommended cranking settings be?
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #19
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Sounds like too much fuel. What does cranking table look like?
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:13 PM   #20
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Here ya go:



Flooring the pedal - clearflood - does not help, tho.
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General MS help please-crankingpw.jpg  
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