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Old 06-01-2012, 10:57 AM   #61
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could be that noticable dip in timing as you hit 100kPa...you're retarding off a lot for no apparent reason.


is retarding off redundent?
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:47 AM   #62
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I am in the process of smoothing out that "dip".

slowly, and just a little bit at a time..
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:48 AM   #63
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yeah i just see no reason to retard 6* of timing between 80 and 100 kPa.

I also dont like where you're trageting 16AFR, that's where youll be sitting at cruise and using very very light throttle inputs to maintain speed...you'll find that's a bit too lean and it'll hesitate on/off throttle when you're costing.

I target 16AFR in cruise with a load closer to 40-60% where you actually have your foot on the gas to maintain speed.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:05 PM   #64
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Thank you, duly noted.

I'll work on polishing those tables this weekend, and post new versions.

Iheartmtnet!
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:22 PM   #65
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I made some changes.
Instead of posting all tables as .jpg files, I am attaching my current tune.

Would you please comment on how things are progressing?
Attached Files
File Type: msq CurrentTune after corrections June 3.msq (84.6 KB, 56 views)
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:36 PM   #66
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I reviewed your MSQ, next time give us a log or else!!!

VE Table:
You should always inject more fuel or have a larger VE value as you increase KPA, there is relatively no exception to this rule. With RPM increase, you will probably see an increase until about 6000rpm, then you might run out of efficiency like I have on numerous cars.
Here is what you sent me (its a wreck, but you'll never know if we don't tell you):

Notice on my turbo car how the VE values look when the turbo wakes up and the general shape:

This is what I use on my white car, its a bit more complex because of my AFR target table but you get the idea.

I am bored and lonely (waiting on a bottle of Kabinett to chill) so I assumed the high-points on your fuel table were from VEAL and made some assumptions, then made a VE table for you. I doubt the car will do well, but it will probably run better than it is now.

For now, I think you should work on getting that VE table right and getting the VE values into a range where VEAL can help you.

AFR Table:
I made you one that I like more. Notice how I scaled it, let me know if you are confused. In my car going leaner than 15.4:1 means I have an increase in KPA and PW. This means that although leaner, I'm making less power and the throttle has to open and squirt more fuel to maintain speed. I don't know if this will coincide with your car, but let us know when you get to monitoring PW for fuel efficiency on the highway.


Sequential Fuel:
I also think you should turn on sequential one you get a solid fuel table so I attached a table that will get you started. Brain made some great posts somewhere about this, I followed his advice and it worked. I will tune this more when I swap engines in the near future.

I also attached this, the most handy GIF when I first started:


Any questions?
Attached Thumbnails
General MS help please-godlesscommiesvefail.jpg   General MS help please-greengloryveawesome.jpg   General MS help please-whitewidowveawesome.jpg   General MS help please-kpapsi.gif   General MS help please-treysafrtable.png  

Attached Files
File Type: vex GodlessCommiesVE.vex (2.6 KB, 65 views)
File Type: vex GodlessCommiesSeq.vex (1,019 Bytes, 79 views)
File Type: vex TreyMadeAnAfrTableForYou.vex (1.6 KB, 56 views)

Last edited by hustler; 06-02-2012 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:06 AM   #67
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Sequential is on in his map.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:18 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Sequential is on in his map.
...he's not using the table though, I misspoke.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:36 AM   #69
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I think you are probably referring to injection timing.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:38 AM   #70
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Thanks guys..

Trey, I have a question:

You went through the trouble of making AFR and VE tables based on my setup.
If I import and use them, what will become of my ignition advance, then?

I mean, from what I understand, VE is a product of the AFR and Advance settings, which in turn has an authority on how these tables are utilized by the MS.

Please correct me if I am wrong or off base with any of my assumptions.

If I introduce a brand new VE table into my setup by importing what you have prepared for me, what will happen when it refers to my existing advance table?

Dimitris, I have a question for you, as well..

You said IAC line interferes with the Knock sensor, etc.. Would that mute/cover, or otherwise hide the signal produced by the knock sensor?

I did a risky but well guarded experiment last night:
I jacked up the entire boosted portion of the ignition table by 5 degrees just to get knock.
(I induced knock on purpose, to see if I could record/see it.)
Then I drove the car for about 2 minutes, and datalogged.
I went into boost twice.

While I could hear (faint) knock, neither my knock gauge indicated anything, nor I could see knock in the log.

Would this be a product of the problem you had mentioned, or am I looking at a potentially dead knock sensor here..

Any thoughts?
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:24 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless Commie View Post
Thanks guys..

Trey, I have a question:

You went through the trouble of making AFR and VE tables based on my setup.
If I import and use them, what will become of my ignition advance, then?

I mean, from what I understand, VE is a product of the AFR and Advance settings, which in turn has an authority on how these tables are utilized by the MS.

Please correct me if I am wrong or off base with any of my assumptions.

If I introduce a brand new VE table into my setup by importing what you have prepared for me, what will happen when it refers to my existing advance table?
Spark, VE, and AFR tables are totally independent in this example. I'll let one of the engineer types explain how the VE table turns the numbers in each cell into a pulse-width calculation.

Ideally you won't use my table, you'll make your own. But hell, plug it in and see if the car goes.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:36 PM   #72
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I understand.

I'll plug in your AFR table and see what happens.
I save everything on a separate PC, so it's easy to revert even if I totally fugger it up.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #73
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This should be a sticky. I'm still reading anything I can before I install my MS and all of this has been super helpful.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #74
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+1! I just stumbled into this and its chock full of goodness.

Trey: Go write a basic -> intermediate tuning guide, seriously. With the way you write, any noob with half a brain should be able to follow it.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:35 PM   #75
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Now that the engine is done and running with no problems, I decided to fiddle with the spark map...

Could you guys please take a look at this EXPERIMENTAL MAP I have prepared?



I am running 9.00:1 compression.

The car feels great up to 0 psi, and seems to fall pretty flat as I enter boost.

I have not imported it into TS yet.
Please tell me what direction I should go with this.

I have not touched my VE table, hoping I will be ironing out the inconsistencies Trey had pointed out earlier by introducing a better spark map and let it autotune..

Thanks!
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:11 PM   #76
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is this a build motor?
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:15 PM   #77
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yes.
I will post a build thread shortly.

9:1 JE pistons, Mtuned rods, ARP everywhere, Steel HG, immensely ported head, IM and TB (+40 CFM flow per port), 650cc EV14 injectors, big fuel rail, COPs, port water injection, reroute, etc..
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:17 PM   #78
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I also worked on a "starter" VE table that is strictly experimental at this point.
Again, I have not imported it into TS yet. (I have TS on my PC, as well, and I use it to experiment with stuff, it never connects to the actual MS unit)

Here is what I drafted:



What do you think?
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General MS help please-experimentalvetable.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:32 PM   #79
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maybe start with this instead:
Attached Files
File Type: table veTable1Tbl_2012-07-12_19.30.41.table (2.6 KB, 83 views)
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #80
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Thank you Scott..

How about the advance table I posted earlier? Too aggressive?
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