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Old 05-27-2007, 02:00 PM   #21
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also my tach still doesn't work, all fuses are ok, i'm wondering if something like the ingitor is broken
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:52 PM   #22
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sounds like it was wired wrong if it runs the ignitor still works do you get rpm on the MS most likely the rpm feed from the ignitor has been stopped on its way to the tach with there mods the question is where?
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:55 PM   #23
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it's the mspnp unit, i didn't touch any wiring. megatune on my laptop shows the correct rpm
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Old 05-27-2007, 04:28 PM   #24
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ok it seems the car will run and drive somewhat normal before it's warmed up. I put my maf back on, plugged the stock ecu in, put the st sign fuse back in(what's that for anyway?)....car won't run, starts and runs for a second and dies, never did this before. This leads me to believe something broke, but what can it be?
cas?
ignitor?
coils?
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:06 PM   #25
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Every single unit is being tested on our car so I know with 100% certainty the MSPNP worked perfectly when it shipped. We actually run a car on each and every one of them. Rev it, idle it, test PWM idle control on it, test fan control on it, etc.

Let's get a bit of history here... I'm about to throw a few questions at you so it may be best to copy the post and answer them one at a time so they're not missed as I know that's easy to do...

I saw your old mod-list in your sig included an emanage, autotune, and some other items... what's the current state of those mods? Were they removed or are they still in place?

You mentioned you've used other maps other than the base map provided with the MSPNP, do you have a copy of all of their spark settings pages? There are alot of potential issues using other maps if you don't know what you're looking for... like are they setup to properly control you cooling fans? Or you idle valve? That's assuming the most important thing, the ignition settings, are safe to use.

When you were first struggling to set the timing without setting it to 10 degrees in MegaTune first, you spent a fair amount of time in the spark settings screen. There are alot of settings on this screen. Did you change any of the other settings?

Can you post a screenshot of your current spark settings page?


Help me out with this info and I'll try and help you get to the bottom of this quickly and get you up and running...
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:03 PM   #26
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well when i first put the mspnp in the tach worked fine, once i figured out the timing i drove it and got gas in the car since it was almost empty, didn't drive perfect but got there and back, tach was acting pretty erratic when i got back jumping and eventually went to zero and hasn't moved since. i tried scotts map which i linked, i changed the setting for wideband to narrowband and all the other settings in that window to what came with the base maps

edit: i can't link the map but it's in the settings thread
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:10 PM   #27
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asked in the other thread, the car doesn't just lose power it almost stalls, megatune on my laptop shows the pw1 zero out 0.0 for a second then the rpms drop, it's almost like hitting a rev limit or something, but the rpm isn't the same every time but it's close

also all the emange stuff has been removed, including the begi afpr basically a stock fuel sysetm except the 305cc injectors and walbro 190hp pump.
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:27 PM   #28
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Thanks for the info man-- I found your problem. Your ignitor is dead.

Background info... during development of the MSPNP MM9093 we toasted a couple of ignitors testing different settings. There are basically two ways to do it... If Spark Output inverted is set to Yes, it won't last long at all, it must be set to No. It will last maybe a minute if the car is parked with the key on, it will last a bit longer if you're driving the car as it won't be switched on constantly. The second way is to have too much dwell time.

The symptoms we saw when both ignitors died is the tach stopped functioning first, and the car kept running, then shortly thereafter the car died completely. Both times, same symptoms.

Our base map has both of these settings correct based on all of the testing we did. I just downloaded Scott's map from the Settings thread... first thing I checked was the Spark Output setting. It's set to Yes. That's what burned your ignitor.

They're really expensive at the dealer... you don't need a new one though as they almost never fail unless something like this happens. Call RSpeed, they sold them to us for $40. If they don't have them let me know and I'll see if I can refer you to someone else that might. MazMart might, or I also know a local guy that parts out Miatas that may be able to help. They're super easy to replace....
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:46 PM   #29
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Jerry, you go above and beyond helping us fools trying MS our Miatas. I just hope I don't get to experience your troubleshooting first-hand
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:52 PM   #30
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thankyou for confirming that jerry, that was my suspicion because i read somewhere the ignitor has an output that drive the tach but i couldn't find a way to test it, i did remove and clean the contacts but that didn't help, they were clean anyway. now i gotta hunt down and ignitor. thanks again man
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:51 PM   #31
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this is funny, because I had the same problem back in the day. tach stopped working but the ignitor never died because I kept driving the car for months fine otherwise. I blew the motor and the car sat for a while. Now I put back in a new motor and the car is running on the stock ecu for now and miraculously the tach is working again. I didnt change any wiring, on the harness, just plugged in the stock ecu again.

I would firmly place my money on bad grounds in hindsight.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:03 AM   #32
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home come ive been running on inverted spark this whole time without a problem? i believe Al and others have too.....
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:06 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
home come ive been running on inverted spark this whole time without a problem? i believe Al and others have too.....
That would be the question of the hour... as best as I can tell there is only one part# for the 90-93 ignitor, and it definitely needs Spark Output Inverted set to No in every situation I've seen and I've seen several now. I can now confirm the 94-95 cars are the same as well based on my 95 M Series car.

My assumption was that map posted in the settings thread somehow got changed and wasn't really what you were running... or that you were running non-stock ignitors such as VB921's... or one other possibility I thought of is maybe you had some sort of piggyback or other device in the mix that intercepted the signals to the ignitor, and that device was effectively reversing the polarity of this incorrect setting... Those are the possible scenarios I thought of.

Other than that it's hard to imagine not having issues, and quickly.

Here's another possibility... how is your board modded? Our mods or Kags mods? That shouldn't effect what the ignitor needs but I'm trying to factor in everything here...
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:26 AM   #34
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Brain's is using Kag's ign mods because we have so far been unable to get yours to function on multiple builds.

When my tach began working the only things new that had changed were that I took off the lc1 and also had a new driver side engine ground. The tach didnt work with the stock ecu before the motor swap after installing the MS. I still firmly believe he has a grounding issue and it is affecting the signal.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Brain's is using Kag's ign mods because we have so far been unable to get yours to function on multiple builds.
There's got to be more to this story too... again, one part number for the ignitor and another single part number for the CAS. The mods on my site should work 100% of the time, and they have worked 100% of the time I've used them on seven different cars. There just has to be something else going on there...
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:54 AM   #36
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I know what it is we suck at this but it will get better i hope. That was an interesting point before Jerry, Scot do you still have your bipes in place? Even in non working form?
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
home come ive been running on inverted spark this whole time without a problem? i believe Al and others have too.....
I have been running on Inverted Spark for about 8 months now, no problems.

I did blow a ignitor on my first install attempt, I chalked it up to installer error. Its been fine since I installed Kingsof337's PnP. Will it hurt anything to switch it to "NO"?

Also, I used the Kags board mods

BTW- I got an ignitor from Planet Miata for like $40, works like a champ.
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:23 AM   #38
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FYI-- just changing this setting will effect your timing, so if you do change it you'd need to reset your base timing.

As for exactly what's going on I'd have to analyze Kag's mods and try and figure out why you're not blowing things up as it seems all of you running inverted spark are running his mods.

Bottom line... map sharing while being a great tool can also be dangerous if you don't watch out for the key settings. If you are just after someones VE and Spark tables it's no problem to export those into .VEX files and import them into our base map overwriting what we had there, and leaving all the base settings intact. That still wouldn't change things like REQ_FUEL/Cranking PW/and AE, but the manual covers this, it's really easy to scale these for different sized injectors. Other things like PWM Idle control are going to be all screwed up most likely with another map as alot of work has gone into getting those pretty close to right on, and part of that is tied to our hardware (meaning even if the other map was right on it's hardware, most likely the TIP122 mod, that's not going to work right on the MSPNP using the V3SMT board with a much improved PWM Idle trany). Other little things like coolant fan control, and in our new map that's about to be released the base settings for boost control would be lost as well. People can do what they want, and I know they will... but there's alot of work that's gone into these maps and there would be alot of value in using them on your MSPNP. They're not perfect in every aspect, cold AE needs a bit of work still and will get it, but they're really good overall. And pretty soon I'll get the chance to touch up Ben's turbo map and make it available as well. That's coming... It still won't be a drop and go affair-- you simply must tune ANY standalone EMS for your car... drop and go with someone else's map, especially on a turbo car... and go ahead and start building your next engine. The goal will be to give you something that needs minimal tuning-- save you as much money as possible, etc. If you're running a similar setup the timing map will likely be spot on... the fuel map will probably be different and must be tuned. That can best be done on the dyno, or very carefully on a private stretch of road with a co-pilot. It will probably never be 'as good' as if it were dyno tuned... but it coul be what most would consider 'close enough'.
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:01 AM   #39
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This is so exciting by the time I am ready to buy one of these this winter everyone will have so much knowledge about everything that even a dummy like me will be able to use one of these
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Old 05-28-2007, 11:05 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
And pretty soon I'll get the chance to touch up Ben's turbo map and make it available as well. That's coming...
I hope by the time my injectors arrive!
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