I'm thinking about a VVT swap in my daily - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-11-2011, 11:55 AM   #21
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
What does this require in addition to running 2 wires from the crank sensor, 2 wires from the cam pulley sensor, and 3-wires to the VVT parts?

I'm really dumb to this stuff, but I can assemble Legos. There's also the thought of educating myself, however that was a somewhat miserable experince when I put MS on the green Miata the first time.
3 wires to CKP sensor: power, ground, signal to ECU
3 wires to CMP sensor: power, ground, signal to ECU
2 wires to VVT solenoid: power, ECU switched ground

You could easily run new wiring and not touch/hack the car's original harness so it can go back to swap post engine swap.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 12:00 PM   #22
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
3 wires to CKP sensor: power, ground, signal to ECU
3 wires to CMP sensor: power, ground, signal to ECU
2 wires to VVT solenoid: power, ECU switched ground

You could easily run new wiring and not touch/hack the car's original harness so it can go back to swap post engine swap.
I have a lot to learn, but Matt and Jerry's book helped me understand a lot of things and contributed to my excitement over learning something like this.

What do you guys have in regards to an assembled MS3x box that an idiot like myself can put in my car without board level modifications?

edit: After this daily driver gets the VVT engine swap, and I find a better car, it's getting cut up. This car is TERRIBLE. It's one of the most cosmetically disgusting Miatas you've ever seen...but no one wants to steal it.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 12:21 PM   #23
Elite Member
iTrader: (41)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seabrook, TX
Posts: 2,409
Total Cats: 19
Default

You have me wanting to do the VVT swap on the yellow car more now.
rharris19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 12:26 PM   #24
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

An off the shelf MS3X would do it, but would need one basic mod. It's $12 if you want us to do it, or I can walk you through it if you want to do it. It's really easy.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 12:44 PM   #25
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Thanks. I'll chew on this for a few months now.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 12:59 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
kday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 223
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
I also don't want to use it on my own car if it isn't open sourced. I have personal mods that I want to apply.
I'm in the same boat. I won't upgrade to MS3 unless I can build it from source. I don't care too much if it's Open Source with capital letters, but if I can't modify it I'm not interested.
kday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 01:02 PM   #27
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Definitely use the stock NB sensors. You absolutely require the 2001 cam sensor as Ben mentioned. It sits on the valve cover and is responsible for providing cam timing data to the ECU.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 01:13 PM   #28
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Definitely use the stock NB sensors. You absolutely require the 2001 cam sensor as Ben mentioned. It sits on the valve cover and is responsible for providing cam timing data to the ECU.
I assume I can find the required settings for the VVT stuff in one of your threads, right? Is there an MSQ floating around that I can use to get the car started?
I'm guessing I'll need to run "NB+" settings for:
  • CMP
  • CKP
  • spark
  • IAC
  • VVT
while I run NA settings for:
  • Fuel pump
  • AC
  • alternator (not really any settings for that but I have a spare '99 bracket)

How will I make the tach work?

I'm worried that I'm over-simplifying this.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 01:32 PM   #29
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

There really are no "settings" for NA alternator and fuel pump. A/C command can loop through the MS3 to allow for idle up and fan activation. A tach output pin with 0-12V square wave output is provided.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 02:00 PM   #30
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,780
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I assume I can find the required settings for the VVT stuff in one of your threads, right? Is there an MSQ floating around that I can use to get the car started?
I'm guessing I'll need to run "NB+" settings for:
  • CMP
  • CKP
  • spark
  • IAC
  • VVT
while I run NA settings for:
  • Fuel pump
  • AC
  • alternator (not really any settings for that but I have a spare '99 bracket)

How will I make the tach work?

I'm worried that I'm over-simplifying this.
There are msq floating around that should be able to get you started. What year is your DD? I think you said 95. Is that correct?

For the Cam and Crank sensors I ran them through my stock CAS wires. There are 4 wires for the stock CAS. 12v, ground, cam, crank. You can find out which is which in one of the MS threads. Basically you hook the 2 grounds from the NB cam and crank sensors to the grounds CAS wires. Then do the same with the 12v wire, you can also attach the VVT pwoer wire to this. Then attach the cam signal wire to the correct wire on the CAS plug, them do the same with the crank.

For VVT you run a single wire back to the MS3x db37. I routed mine through one of the stock EGR wires that I was no longer using.

Spark depends on if you are running sequential spark or not. If you are you will just have to run 2 additional wires back to the ms3x harness.

Any reason why you can not just run your older throttle body on the new IM? I was planning on just reusing my 94 TB when I was going with a 99 IM.

For the alternator you probably just want to run a 94-97 alternator. That way you don't have to worry about it.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 02:17 PM   #31
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I assume I can find the required settings for the VVT stuff in one of your threads, right? Is there an MSQ floating around that I can use to get the car started?
I'm guessing I'll need to run "NB+" settings for:
  • CMP
  • CKP
  • spark
  • IAC
  • VVT
while I run NA settings for:
  • Fuel pump
  • AC
  • alternator (not really any settings for that but I have a spare '99 bracket)

How will I make the tach work?

I'm worried that I'm over-simplifying this.
I've got maps for all of it (except alternator) smeared on the internets.

the process isn't too hard. I wrote up a VVT procedure a little while ago that seems to work ok.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 02:58 PM   #32
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Big thanks to everyone for the help and spelling this out to someone who had to take Cal1 and Cal2 three times each to pass.

I'll gather all the information and post it in here when I get ready to roll with the swap. I already picked-up another LC-1.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 03:11 PM   #33
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,441
Total Cats: 198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Might need to tweak a VR trim pot a bit on the scope.
There was an actual bug in the MS3 code in alpha6, the ignition timers would overflow when the RPM was low enough in the Miata 99-04 wheel decoder (the timers overflowed as the time between the tach events were "unnaturally high" when the RPM was lower than ~160). James found the bug and corrected it in alpha7 IIRC.
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 03:13 PM   #34
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,899
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

we are on alpha11 now.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 03:14 PM   #35
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,780
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Any reason why you don't install the MS3x before the engine swap? You could theoretically get it up and running on the old stock engine. Get used to the difference, then convert to sequential fuel and spark. Then swap in the VVT motor and swap to NB sensors.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 03:33 PM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,523
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
There are msq floating around that should be able to get you started. What year is your DD? I think you said 95. Is that correct?

For the Cam and Crank sensors I ran them through my stock CAS wires. There are 4 wires for the stock CAS. 12v, ground, cam, crank. You can find out which is which in one of the MS threads. Basically you hook the 2 grounds from the NB cam and crank sensors to the grounds CAS wires. Then do the same with the 12v wire, you can also attach the VVT pwoer wire to this. Then attach the cam signal wire to the correct wire on the CAS plug, them do the same with the crank.

For VVT you run a single wire back to the MS3x db37. I routed mine through one of the stock EGR wires that I was no longer using.

Spark depends on if you are running sequential spark or not. If you are you will just have to run 2 additional wires back to the ms3x harness.

Any reason why you can not just run your older throttle body on the new IM? I was planning on just reusing my 94 TB when I was going with a 99 IM.

For the alternator you probably just want to run a 94-97 alternator. That way you don't have to worry about it.
Holy **** Lars, brilliant post, thanks for the wiring tips.
webby459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 04:17 PM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Thanks. I'm leaning over the cliff, looking down on my knowledge of electronics. I'm intimidated by things like building harnesses and setting up sequential injection, the VVT stuffs, and possibly converting over to Hall sensors.

My plan is get a really slick drivetrain in this miserable looking car, then when I have more cash I want to buy a nicer roller and swap the drivetrain in.
I STRONGLY recommend sequential. Only requires two more wires.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 04:23 PM   #38
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,780
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
I STRONGLY recommend sequential. Only requires two more wires.
Well it depends if he want full sequential and what year his DD is. On a 90-93 non-cali car he needs to run 4 wires for full sequential. Two additoinal wires for fuel and two more for spark.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 04:38 PM   #39
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,485
Total Cats: 248
Default

The best idea is to sell your VVT stuffs to me.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 04:56 PM   #40
Tour de Franzia
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

this car is from 1995.

I suppose I could get it up and running on NA sensors first, then swap, but if I'm already familiar with TunerStudio is there any point in doing this?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 Yesterday 09:00 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:02 PM.