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Old 10-30-2012, 07:39 PM   #21
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20 posts to confirm Five-0s are junk. Got it, check. Do I really need 1000CC injectors? Or will ID 550CC injectors be sufficient for my "approx" 300Wheel Hp Miata?

And I assume with the current setup no need for a rising rate FPR?

Mike
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:43 PM   #22
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300 wheel will require at least ID725's. In which case you may as well go with the 1000's.

ID's like more pressure than stock. But not mandatory. Also with a regulator it will be even harder controlling large injectors at idle with bad resolution from mspnp.
See the pattern?
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:10 PM   #23
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It pains me when I see or talk to people who are dissuaded by the Injector Dynamics' price tag. Yes, they are expensive. If there were anything out there that I thought was on par with the IDs for less money, I'd sell them too. But here's the thing: there is nothing on the market today that touches the IDs. You can waste money on shitty, no-name EV14s, or waste even more money on modified EV14s from shops like Five-O, and in the end, you'll have wasted a bunch of money on injectors that either idle like ****, don't flow evenly, or have some other fatal flaw.

With almost every injector manufacturer, you'll find a bunch of people who like them, and a bunch of people who have had a bad experience for one reason or another. Injector Dynamics is the one outlier - everyone who uses them absolutely loves them, and I don't just mean Miata tuners. There are Supra tuners, Viper tuners, Gallardo tuners, guys who spend more on ECUs than half of you guys spend on your entire build, and all of them universally adore the IDs for meeting the high-flow demands of those cars without any of the nasty drawbacks of shitty, low-buck injectors.

Here's the thing about ID injectors: There's no fatal flaw. They idle perfectly, they drive perfectly, and they are big enough to support horsepower levels you can only dream about. They are genuinely the last set of injectors you'll ever buy, so kindly stop ******* around and buy a set (preferably from me) so we can all move on with our lives.

Injector Dynamics ID1000s from Trackspeed Engineering
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:11 PM   #24
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I was pursuaded by a "deal", now I have shitty injectors I wish i never bought.

What injector is in Rover?
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:22 PM   #25
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Savington, Ping me offline with a price... Like I said before, I don't mind spending the "appropriate amount" of money. I had a 670HP Porsche Turbo. I fully understand the "big" picture. Just trying to get ground truth before I make a decision.

Mike
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelly View Post
Savington, Ping me offline with a price... Like I said before, I don't mind spending the "appropriate amount" of money. I had a 670HP Porsche Turbo. I fully understand the "big" picture. Just trying to get ground truth before I make a decision.

Mike
Here is a link to the ID1000's at TSE's site. Buy these injectors and you will never need to upgrade injectors again as long as you own the car.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:53 AM   #27
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+1 for ID1000's or anything Injector Dynamics. Went through rx7 550's, 2 sets of fiveo's and FINALLY upgraded to ID's and I should have just gone with ID's from the get go. Save myself a bunch of money, not to mention the headaches with the other injectors. If I ever help with upgrading someone's injectors, I will refuse to use any other injector, unless they're free... and then later make them upgrade to ID's
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:32 AM   #28
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So what issues are people experiencing with the five-o's?

Just trying to get an idea of whether its 1 single downside or a whole list.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:05 AM   #29
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I have a bunch of lower flow ev14 injectors lying around.
I was curious how the flow would be effected by removal of the atomizing plate. (Easy to remove with orbital sander.)




I will get a friend to flow test it but my guess is that flow jumped significantly.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:11 AM   #30
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ive never even seen this "plate" on any of the ev14s I've ever used.

which ones are those and how old are they?
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:01 PM   #31
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If I understand correctly, anything with the 0 280 158 xxx numbering (as used by FIC, ID and others) comes originally with an atomizing plate.
18 psi, I guess all the EV14's you have used have been aftermarket modified ones?

The injectors in my picture are bosch part 0 280 158 193 and were used in ford vehicles up until 2009, possibly later. I got 20 of them for 100$ on ebay when I only needed 4! On my car they flow around 400cc. I have seen some guys advertising them as 750 cc with the atomizing plate removed but who knows.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
The only injector you should buy are ID1000's. If anyone else tells you otherwise they are wrong. I have used 5 different sets of injectors over the past 5 years and the ID1000's are by far the best ones out of them all.

This response is very important so im going to bold it and make it big:

DO YOU WANT TO BE THE PERSON WHO TUNES 1000CC injectors on a STOCK 1.6L running MSPNP w/ BATCH INJECTION?
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
This response is very important so im going to bold it and make it big:

DO YOU WANT TO BE THE PERSON WHO TUNES 1000CC injectors on a STOCK 1.6L running MSPNP w/ BATCH INJECTION?
Sure:
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:10 PM   #34
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How does the spray of an injector vary with and without the atomizing plate?
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
How does the spray of an injector vary with and without the atomizing plate?
The effect seems to be real but the results can be unpredictable according to this article

Injector Dynamics - Drillbits and Dipshits
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
This response is very important so im going to bold it and make it big:

DO YOU WANT TO BE THE PERSON WHO TUNES 1000CC injectors on a STOCK 1.6L running MSPNP w/ BATCH INJECTION?
I bet you can get them to idle decently. You might be a little rich, but I am betting you could do it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:51 PM   #37
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I spoke with Five 0. They replace the atomizing caps with their own and check flow at 3 different duty rates. I still wish I had gone with ID.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:56 PM   #38
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I bet you can get them to idle decently. You might be a little rich, but I am betting you could do it.

why? for what reason on a block that's limited to 250tq? why have to idle rich so you can have an injector twice your limits/needs?

I'll conceed on the 725cc ID injector, albeit still a bit large. But I think you could get them to idle fine on a 1.6L with batch injection.

I'm not saying that ID injectors are bad by any stretch of the means, but suggesting that the only option is the ID1000 is silly. Do I want ID injectors? hell yeah! But I dont want 1000cc injectors, even with seq. fuel and spark. 725cc in still more than the majority of us on this site will ever need.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
why? for what reason on a block that's limited to 250tq? why have to idle rich so you can have an injector twice your limits/needs?

I'll conceed on the 725cc ID injector, albeit still a bit large. But I think you could get them to idle fine on a 1.6L with batch injection.

I'm not saying that ID injectors are bad by any stretch of the means, but suggesting that the only option is the ID1000 is silly. Do I want ID injectors? hell yeah! But I dont want 1000cc injectors, even with seq. fuel and spark. 725cc in still more than the majority of us on this site will ever need.
Because if you are buying things once then do it correctly. I at one point thought my RX7 440cc injectors would be more then I ever need. A few years later I have since upgraded multiple times with overall cost being far greater then what ID1000's cost. I guess if you are running an MS1 with batch fuel on a 1.6 then yes ID725's would work, but for the cost difference I just cannot see not getting the 1000's.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:19 PM   #40
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So what are the options for a <200hp motor that wants to use seq fuel with an ev14 style injector but doesn't need 750ccs of it every squirt? Get 1000s anyway (because last set you'll ever buy yada yada) and run them on 10% duty cycle all the time?
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