MS2 exploded at the track - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 09-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #1
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Default MS2 exploded at the track

You can see that damage best in the 2nd photo. From what I can tell it's not reparable as the circuit is burned. Can anyone smarter than me confirm?

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MS2 exploded at the track-syatk6.jpg   MS2 exploded at the track-vsnkns.jpg  
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:43 PM   #2
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replace both those caps and move along.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #3
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Board looks pretty toasty there as well, Brain...
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:02 PM   #4
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replace both those caps, fix any broken traces, and move along.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
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Exploding C16 is something that happens more than it should. Replace with a higher voltage.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:25 PM   #6
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Yeah, that.
Kinda makes me nervous.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #7
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Can someone point me to which part it is in the schematic?
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Can someone point me to which part it is in the schematic?
c16. part of the 5v circuit.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:36 PM   #9
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C16 in this schematic

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MS2 exploded at the track-v3pcb_6.gif  
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:41 PM   #10
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It's a part of the power supply circuit

Megasquirt 3 - V3.0 board schematics
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:36 PM   #11
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Where does "12V for MSII stepper" go? (above C16)

Does someone have the manuf. part number of C16?
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:35 AM   #12
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The official V3.0 BOM says use Digikey 399-3584-ND.

12V for stepper is an optional 12V source for the stepper chip on the MS2 daughterboard.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:05 AM   #13
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*This post contains ignorant, yet well meaning questions*

A track environment is understandably tough on mechanical components.
But, is the failure of an ECM on the track a mere coincidence, or does the failure have something to do with sustained high rpm and the very rapid "cycling" of the capacitors to keep up with the injector and coil drivers?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:11 AM   #14
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More likely than not, just a bad part (ie lower voltage spec than specified). The time it fails is irrelevant. Another two failures happened at idle.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:16 AM   #15
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Thanks, that's what I had thought - with my limited understanding of electronics.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
12V for stepper is an optional 12V source for the stepper chip on the MS2 daughterboard.
Is this used to power a boost or idle solenoid?
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godless Commie View Post
... does the failure have something to do with sustained high rpm and the very rapid "cycling" of the capacitors to keep up with the injector and coil drivers?
You think like an engineer! Yes cyclic currents in a capacitor ("ripple current") can cause overheating and failure. However C16 doesn't see injector / coil currents. It's not clear how much ripple it sees.

Tantalum capacitor applications need careful evaluation because the temperature, voltage, and ripple current stresses can cause failures. In this application it might be on the order of 0.1 - 1 % per 1000 hours.

Polymer aluminum electrolytic capacitors are less "delicate". I suggest using these:
Digikey 493-6661-1-ND

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Old 09-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #18
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The only time I've seen these blow personally is:

1. ran a flyback to s12c instead of s12.
2. installed the MS in a NB and they blew instantly; this happened twice.

otherwise, I've never had one blew from sustained use.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
The only time I've seen these blow personally is:

1. ran a flyback to s12c instead of s12.
2. installed the MS in a NB and they blew instantly; this happened twice.

otherwise, I've never had one blew from sustained use.
Car had done maybe 30-35 laps over 4 hours. Pull out for the last 3 minutes of track time and :15 later all power cut.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #20
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jeff man, email us at [email protected] with your info, and we'll mail you replacement caps.
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