MS3 or MSPNP Pro - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

MS3 or MSPNP Pro

Old 09-23-2015, 04:05 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default MS3 or MSPNP Pro

I recently acquired a 2001 vvt longblock. I currently have a 1.6 in my 1990 NA. I am running a MSPNP Gen 2 and I know that I won't be able to control vvt with it unless I get the vvt controller. If I were to put the 2001 engine into my 90 NA. Would the MS3 be plug and play if I were to get one made from Reverant or Braineack? Would the MSPNP Pro be easier? How much of the MSPNP pro is really PNP? I'm assuming everything besides the vvt stuff? What I really want is to be able to controll vvt and use the 2001 coils, BUT keep my 1.6 wiring on the car side.

Thanks
David
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:13 PM
  #2  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,104
Total Cats: 2,116
Default

yes. no, same. all of it. correct.

All can do what you want.
Braineack is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:16 PM
  #3  
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (4)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,283
Total Cats: 433
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yes. no, same. all of it. correct.

All can do what you want.

/thread


I have an MS3x built by Brain. It's in a 92. I have VVT. 2001 Coils you'd have to wire into your NA harness anyway. Ditch the CAS, split the wiring to utilize the NB2 cam and crank sensors. Easy peasy (after lots of hand holding).
psyber_0ptix is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:21 PM
  #4  
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 75,104
Total Cats: 2,116
Default

and i did a really poor job of hand holding you too...
Braineack is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:24 PM
  #5  
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (4)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,283
Total Cats: 433
Default

Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
and i did a really poor job of hand holding you too...
Your info on spark and injector tied pairs saved the day.
psyber_0ptix is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:44 PM
  #6  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
/thread


I have an MS3x built by Brain. It's in a 92. I have VVT. 2001 Coils you'd have to wire into your NA harness anyway. Ditch the CAS, split the wiring to utilize the NB2 cam and crank sensors. Easy peasy (after lots of hand holding).
Thanks, just what I wanted to hear. I've been reading more on this since I got it last weekend. Still trying to figure out all I need. I was really trying to go MS3 soon anyways so Brain, you might have a new customer within the next few months. If you feel like taking on another noob tuner customer One more question. Do you have to use a boomslang type adapter to connect to the Braineack built ECUs or just plug your NA harness straight to it?
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:19 PM
  #7  
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (4)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,283
Total Cats: 433
Default

Brain does a great job setting it up. You just unplug stock ecu, plug in new ecu with a vacuum line.

You will run one wire out to the VVT solenoid, and also out to the knock sensor should you elect to run one (and you should). This is handled by an auxiliary harness/plug which will be provided with the unit.



Why not just get VVTuner and use your MS2?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/vvtuner-c-80.html

Just transfer the relevant coolant temp sensor, and simply splice the wires into the IACV and TPS of your existing setup. You can still use your CAS setup and just run it on the exhaust cam. Just keep the hole plugged up on the VVT valve cover for the stock NB cam sensor.
psyber_0ptix is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:36 PM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
Brain does a great job setting it up. You just unplug stock ecu, plug in new ecu with a vacuum line.

You will run one wire out to the VVT solenoid, and also out to the knock sensor should you elect to run one (and you should). This is handled by an auxiliary harness/plug which will be provided with the unit.



Why not just get VVTuner and use your MS2?
VVTuner Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products - DIYAutoTune.com

Just transfer the relevant coolant temp sensor, and simply splice the wires into the IACV and TPS of your existing setup. You can still use your CAS setup and just run it on the exhaust cam. Just keep the hole plugged up on the VVT valve cover for the stock NB cam sensor.
Yes, I did consider the VVTuner with my MSPNP Gen2. If I understand it correctly, this would allow me to use the NB2 crank and cam signals and also ditch the CAS to control timing and vvt?
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 06:12 PM
  #9  
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (4)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,283
Total Cats: 433
Default

You can do that anyway, you just split the 4 CAS wires, bus power and ground to each sensor, and run the two signal wires to the corresponding sensor. Make sure you select 99-00 under spark mode in your ignition options. Look below for wire info for NA6

Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
If anyone that follows this thread is knowledgable with wiring between miata's, can you please check out this thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...5/#post1117257


I'm hoping to have this all markered before I try to swap this weekend.


I need to ensure that they are connected correctly.

____________________________________

For the Crank/Cam signal
Stock 1.6L CAS:
black w/ light green stripe = Ground
white w/ red stripe = +12V
white = crank signal
yellow w/ blue stripe = cam signal

on the BP4W Crank Sensor:
White w/red stripe = +12v
Black w/blue stripe = ground
Grey w/ Red = Crank signal

on BP4W Cam Sensor:
White w/red stripe = +12v
Black w/blue stripe = ground
Grey w/ Blue = Cam signal

essentially, I can split the power and ground from the stock CAS and wire it into the respective white/red and black wires on the BP4W sensors, then just hook up
[NA6:white to BP4W:grey/red] and
[NA6: yellow/blue to BP4W: grey/blue]


____________________________________

For IACV
just connect the wires as polarity doesn't matter?


source: http://forum.miata.net/vb/newreply.p...eply&p=5233397
____________________________________

TPS
NA6 Red = 5v reference
NA6 light green/white = TPS signal
NA6 black/green = Ground

BP4W Light Grn/Red = 5v reference
BP4W Green/Black = TPS signal
BP4W Black/Red = Ground




source: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-93-car-36271/
____________________________________

Wiring is the same as BP4W, that was just my old motor.
psyber_0ptix is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 06:19 PM
  #10  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
You can do that anyway, you just split the 4 CAS wires, bus power and ground to each sensor, and run the two signal wires to the corresponding sensor. Make sure you select 99-00 under spark mode in your ignition options.
Would I still be able to use seq. fuel and batch cops this way?

Edit: Been reading up on your build thread too to get a better idea of what is needed. awesome build BTW.
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 07:29 PM
  #11  
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 14,133
Total Cats: 1,247
Default

I would highly suggest getting a MS3 over the vvttuner. The other updated features above what your ms2 has are worth it. You should be able to sell the ms2 to help offset the cost.
shuiend is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 07:47 PM
  #12  
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof
iTrader: (4)
 
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,283
Total Cats: 433
Default

Originally Posted by konmo View Post
Would I still be able to use seq. fuel and batch cops this way?

Edit: Been reading up on your build thread too to get a better idea of what is needed. awesome build BTW.
yes, but you'd have to wire the extra two spark/inj outputs

Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I would highly suggest getting a MS3 over the vvttuner. The other updated features above what your ms2 has are worth it. You should be able to sell the ms2 to help offset the cost.
If cost is not prohibitive, I'd advise this as well. But you can still get away with ms2 if that's what you're comfy with. I made back enough off of my mspnp1 to justify Brains miracle box. Setup and tuning on ms3 is a bit daunting for me though. Still trying to learn/understand/not blow up the second motor.
psyber_0ptix is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:24 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Thanks, appreciate all the input. This MSPNP2 is fairly new, bought from 949Racing less than a year ago. I learned what I know so far by messing with this on my N/A 1.6 Miata. Hopefully an MS3 is not that much different. I would probably just keep this MS and have two of them in case I build a second NA.
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:55 PM
  #14  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,946
Total Cats: 1,784
Default

VVT swap megathread

MSLabs MS3 Basic Plug-and-Play

If you can put your pants on without assistance, you can do the swap with the two links above
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:04 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by Savington View Post
VVT swap megathread

MSLabs MS3 Basic Plug-and-Play

If you can put your pants on without assistance, you can do the swap with the two links above
Thank you for the links Andrew. I've also been reading through your VVT thread. Lots of useful info in there. I am going to read up on anything else I might be missing, but first thing is start setting aside my budget for this. Thanks for the help guys.
konmo is offline  
Old 09-23-2015, 11:11 PM
  #16  
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,651
Total Cats: 111
Default

Originally Posted by konmo View Post
I recently acquired a 2001 vvt longblock. I currently have a 1.6 in my 1990 NA. I am running a MSPNP Gen 2 and I know that I won't be able to control vvt with it unless I get the vvt controller. If I were to put the 2001 engine into my 90 NA. Would the MS3 be plug and play if I were to get one made from Reverant or Braineack? Would the MSPNP Pro be easier? How much of the MSPNP pro is really PNP? I'm assuming everything besides the vvt stuff? What I really want is to be able to controll vvt and use the 2001 coils, BUT keep my 1.6 wiring on the car side.

Thanks
David
The MSPNP Pro is extremely PNP, even with the VVT swap. In fact, Kevin and I designed the ECU specifically with VVT swap in mind. It can retain the complete 1.6 wiring harness if desired, and the new cam sensor, crank sensor, and OCV solenoid wire to a spare connector on the ECU. It can also run the NB alternator as desired (which is my preference, but some people keep the 1.6 accessories).

FYI, Kevin's CSP prepped 90 with VVT swap, the test mule for this ECU (we practice what we preach):




And you can see documentation here that shows how the extra connectors are pinned for the VVT engine's extra I/O needs. Scroll to the bottom:
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
Attached Thumbnails MS3 or MSPNP Pro-80-kevin2_d91faeb08c8c69051033679e4e5bf54fb0cc1b54.png  
__________________
DIYAutoTune.com Tech Support
10AE-T|BEGi S4|MSPNP-Pro EMS|Enthuza Duals|6UL|Etc
Track Rat|2001|VVT|MS3-Pro EMS|Enthuza|Exocet in Progress

Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Buy an MSPNP Pro, you'll feel better.
Ben is offline  
Old 11-05-2015, 01:36 PM
  #17  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by Ben View Post
The MSPNP Pro is extremely PNP, even with the VVT swap. In fact, Kevin and I designed the ECU specifically with VVT swap in mind. It can retain the complete 1.6 wiring harness if desired, and the new cam sensor, crank sensor, and OCV solenoid wire to a spare connector on the ECU. It can also run the NB alternator as desired (which is my preference, but some people keep the 1.6 accessories).

FYI, Kevin's CSP prepped 90 with VVT swap, the test mule for this ECU (we practice what we preach):




And you can see documentation here that shows how the extra connectors are pinned for the VVT engine's extra I/O needs. Scroll to the bottom:
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
I just got a hold a MSPNP Pro from a member on this forum. I was looking at the optional connector pinouts from the link you provided and noticed that I did not receive the 12 pin connector, I only got the rear option connector and connector number#3. I assume that this connector normally comes included when new?
konmo is offline  
Old 11-05-2015, 02:31 PM
  #18  
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 14,133
Total Cats: 1,247
Default

Originally Posted by konmo View Post
I just got a hold a MSPNP Pro from a member on this forum. I was looking at the optional connector pinouts from the link you provided and noticed that I did not receive the 12 pin connector, I only got the rear option connector and connector number#3. I assume that this connector normally comes included when new?
shoot an email to [email protected] and you will probably get a faster response about this.

Last edited by shuiend; 11-05-2015 at 03:03 PM.
shuiend is offline  
Old 11-05-2015, 02:51 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 299
Total Cats: 19
Default

Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
shoot an email to [email protected] and you will probably get a faster response about this.
I'll try that. Thank you.
konmo is offline  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:03 PM
  #20  
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 14,133
Total Cats: 1,247
Default

Originally Posted by konmo View Post
I'll try that. Thank you.
I lied, it is [email protected] for support.
shuiend is offline  

Quick Reply: MS3 or MSPNP Pro


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.