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Old 11-18-2013, 02:53 PM   #21
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Right, I too am trying to learn as well. Hell, I'm still waiting for my MS. In for win
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
This may seem rudimentary but why exactly couldn't you turn the SuperMiata 36-1 into a 36-2? Even if the tooth spacing is slightly different, can't you set the MS to compensate?

I mean seriously... its a wheel missing some teeth
No, the wheel decoder was written specifically for the relationship between the FM wheel and the NB's stock cam trigger. To use any other wheel besides either the stock 4 tooth wheel or the FM 36-2 wheel, you will need to pair with a 1 tooth cam trigger.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:39 PM   #23
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No, the wheel decoder was written specifically for the relationship between the FM wheel and the NB's stock cam trigger. To use any other wheel besides either the stock 4 tooth wheel or the FM 36-2 wheel, you will need to pair with a 1 tooth cam trigger.
Gotcha! I didn't realize it was "hard coded" into the system. Good think I bought the 4T wheel with my damper. Thank you for the confirmation
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:48 PM   #24
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Gotcha! I didn't realize it was "hard coded" into the system.
All "unusual" configurations are hard-coded. In this context, anything involving unevenly-spaced pules is unusual.

The "generic" wheel decoder, which lets you specify arbitrary (non-OEM) configurations, can only understand custom configurations in which the tooth spacing is even on both wheels. This is why I was rather surprised when Ben told me the code had been revised to accommodate the FM 36-2 wheel and the stock NB cam. Such a configuration would have been impossible with the "generic" decoder.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #25
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Huh, and here I thought you could just "change it" in the system.

What are the chances of getting DIY to add things like the other two tooth profiles available with SuperMiata damper?

alternately

At what point do you need more than the stock profile 4T wheel? I don't want this to turn into a "Everyone needs 3" exhaust all the time regardless of power level" type debate, I'm genuinely curious. I realize that sometimes more is just more and just because something is "better" doesn't mean we actually need it.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:12 PM   #26
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Since I have to acquire the 99 OEM cam gear with trigger, what are the benefits of getting TODA racing adjustable cam gears? If I go with the TODA, do I need to replace both cam gears with adjustable or can I get away with just the intake and keep the exhaust cam gear that I have.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:18 PM   #27
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Depends on if you want to have adjustability on both cams. IIRC the toda gears will work with the cam sensor on the 99 motor since they have the nubs on them too.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:24 PM   #28
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What's required to get something hard-coded?

Brain mentioned once something about taking a composite log of the signals. However, I suppose that code development would be subject to the amount of demand for this specific setup, and since it's not a widely used configuration it'd just be easier to:

1) switch to an oem 4 tooth trigger wheel and run 99-00 code, easy peasy but costs additional $125 (replacement trigger wheel for supermiata damper)

2) Grind off the twin bumps off the cam gear, setup MS3 using "Toothed Wheel" option.
-36 tooth gear with one tooth missing, measuring the angle of the sensor which is ~ 250 BTDC
-Setting the trigger wheel seems straight forward....

... but the bump on the cam gear at TDC is positioned just before the sensor, so how does one account for this angle?

Last edited by psyber_0ptix; 11-20-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
What are the chances of getting DIY to add things like the other two tooth profiles available with SuperMiata damper?
By and large, DIY are not the ones doing code development. They certainly have a large amount of influence with the developers, however the MS3 code is all done by a group of volunteers who are part of the "general" MSExtra development community, principally James Murray and Kenneth Culver. Thus, all requests for code modifications tend to go through them.

Alternately, the source code has been published so you are technically free to go and hack it in yourself, or to pay someone else to do it for you. This, of course, will create a forked build that you are now responsible for maintaining.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:41 AM   #30
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Does Fidanza sell a 99 intake cam gear with the trigger? Fidanza is cheaper than Toda, but I am unable find the one with trigger.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:44 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
By and large, DIY are not the ones doing code development. They certainly have a large amount of influence with the developers, however the MS3 code is all done by a group of volunteers who are part of the "general" MSExtra development community, principally James Murray and Kenneth Culver. Thus, all requests for code modifications tend to go through them.

Alternately, the source code has been published so you are technically free to go and hack it in yourself, or to pay someone else to do it for you. This, of course, will create a forked build that you are now responsible for maintaining.

Ken would probably be able to make a trigger wheel pattern work easily if you simply supplied a composite log of the triggers.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
All "unusual" configurations are hard-coded. In this context, anything involving unevenly-spaced pules is unusual.

The "generic" wheel decoder, which lets you specify arbitrary (non-OEM) configurations, can only understand custom configurations in which the tooth spacing is even on both wheels.
Since the Supermiata 12+1 trigger wheel isn't evenly spaced or hard coded. I'm reading that to say that it's completely useless until someone writes code for it?
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post

Since the Supermiata 12+1 trigger wheel isn't evenly spaced or hard coded. I'm reading that to say that it's completely useless until someone writes code for it?
If this is the same one that 949 and Trackspeed had, then it is evenly spaced. (A missing tooth does not count as uneven.)

However, while you could use this wheel in batch mode with no CMP, or cut down the cam/gear to only one tooth, you could not use a 12T wheel with a stock NB cam pattern unless a custom definition was hard coded for it.



Whoops, mis read that. No, 12+1 would not work without a custom setup. That's what dremels are for.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Ken would probably be able to make a trigger wheel pattern work easily if you simply supplied a composite log of the triggers.
Do you know, roughly, what turn around time is? I'm wondering if I could skate by on batch with the 36-1, lay the wires out for sequential, then make the switch when the code is written. Then all I'd have to do is locate where the injectors are paired and snip/join.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:06 AM   #35
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here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Depends. If James decides to do it, it would probably take a few days to write the code. James will implement it if he thinks more people will use it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #36
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after talking more it sounds like they'd be willing to do it and it'd be easy for them.

Just gotta figure out what we are asking for here with the 36-1 wheel...
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #37
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I like where this thread is going. Scott, thanks for asking the guys
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:27 PM   #38
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Wait a minute, might this allow the supermiata 12T wheel work with full sequential and standard NB sensors? I swayed to the stock 4T setup after Dimitris convinced me to since it was either easier or unsupported at the time. I forgot which it was.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:50 PM   #39
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I'd like to see code support for sequential ignition and injection for both the SuperMiata 12+1 (or modified 12-1 or 12T) and 36-1 wheels using OEM 99/00 and 01/05 cam and trigger setups. I don't mean to be a dick but this seems like a no-brainer. Most of the guys who are actually building and running hardcore turbo builds or N/A race motors with stand alone ECUs are building BPs, and they are going to jump at the 949/SuperMiata damper. Code is there for the FM wheel, why not get some love for the 949 gear

For me, hardware is easy, its the software that kills me. I'll be honest: I'm a moron when it comes to this kind of stuff. If I can't just check a box I'll probably **** it up on the configuration side. If I have to modify a trigger wheel or a CAS or something to make this work, I have no problem doing that provided I have clear instructions. Just don't ask me to conduct a physiology lecture or direct a light opera on the software side.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:03 PM   #40
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the 99-00 and 01-05 cam sensor signal is the same right? I'm assuming it is using my superior knowledge of things.

honestly if I can get James a composite log of the 36-1 with a 99-05 cam signal, he'd probably write the code to support it.
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