MS3X VVT - no crank and cam signal issue - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-07-2016, 09:25 PM   #21
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Well, I'm about to pull my hair out ... still no crank signal ... kinda exhausted all options. Double checked wiring and every wire connection tested ok. Ordered a new crank sensor since this is kind of the last possible cause other than a problem with the ecu itself. Will test with new sensor when it arrives on Monday.

Does anybody know someone in the San Francisco Bay Area who has the ability to test / check the MS3 VR input circuit?

Thanks for any tips in advance.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:40 PM   #22
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Strange. My 01' Miata worked fine without a pull-up, on two different main boards. I recently upgraded to a MSpnpPro so I am not going to waste my time messing with my old ECU, but I wonder why I was able to get it to work without it, if it is in fact necessary.

Also, what is connecting your megasquirt to the sensor? Are you using some sort of adapter harness or box, or are you spliced directly into the car wiring. I can't recall if I saw what the overall application is.

EDIT: From :https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...rt-your-miata/
Quote:
MS3 with MS3X – Almost ready out of the box

Note: MS3-Pro installation is covered in section 5.3.14 of the MS3-Pro Manual.

This one has much fewer mods required. You will just need to do the following:

Make sure the main board is set up for VR input. On a V3.0, jumper TachSelect to VRIN and TSEL to VROUT. On a V3.57, put JP1 in the 1-2 position and J1 in the 3-4 position.
For a pull up on the CMP input, make sure JP7 is in place on the MS3X.
The CKP input also needs a pull up. You can either put this in place externally or internally.
For an external pull up, run a 1K resistor from pin 26 to pin 24 on the main board.
For an internal pull up on a V3.0 board, connect a 1K resistor on a wire from the 5V hole above the proto area to TachSelect.
For an internal pull up on a V3.57 board, solder a 1K resistor to R57.
That’s it!
If that was done, I don't know what to tell you. I guess I was lucky all those years.

Last edited by Chiburbian; 05-07-2016 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 05-08-2016, 01:35 AM   #23
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How did you adjust the pots? If you just counted turns, I would try using a multimeter and measuring voltage as described in the manual. I had the same issue with mine after I counted turns and lost track of how far CCW it had gone. I had the same single spike of the crank signal at the end of every plot, even though it was getting no signal. Adjusted to 2.5V and the car started.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Strange. My 01' Miata worked fine without a pull-up, on two different main boards.
no it didnt.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
no it didnt.
Ok, let's be clear of what we are both saying here.

I am saying that my car fired and ran without pull-ups (at least on the crank sensor, because the cam sensor pull up may be installed on my MS3x board).

Wither or not it ran optimally is another story, but I am 100% certain that there was no pull up on the board I looked at on my bench yesterday, and when I get my fully built ECU back I will happily pull it apart and check to see if there are any hidden pull-ups I may have missed.

This may be the reason why I had so many problems adjusting my VR pots.

So, should you install pull-ups? Absolutely. Somehow I must have been the anomaly. My only point in replying is to figure out if you are saying that my car did not run without pull-ups, because clearly enough for me, it did.
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Old 05-08-2016, 01:00 PM   #26
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We did not measure voltage, but went through the whole pot range in cycles with two pot turns at a time - didn't make any difference.

Re-checking the wiring again, discovered an error though. Due to using difference wire colors for wire extensions, the black wire (ground - mainboard pin 1) in the shielded crank sensor cable (DIYAutoTunen pigtail) got accidentally connected to the signal wire (blue) of the crank sensor. Not sure if this exposed the VR input to 12V and could have damaged anything inside the ecu? Changed the wiring but still no signal.

Can someone please verify the following crank sensor wiring that we currently have:

- Black ground wire in shielded crank sensor cable (ecu mainboard pin 1) to ground wire on sensor
- White signal wire in shielded crank sensor cable (ecu mainboardpin 24) to signal wire on sensor
- Separate fused 12V feed to 12V wire on sensor

What about the grey wire (ecu mainboard pin 26 - also part of the TPS wiring) which is referenced in the DIYAutoTune wiring diagram as needed for a hall type sensor?

Thanks much in advance.
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Old 05-08-2016, 01:23 PM   #27
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Are you getting my private messages Coma? I sent you some files to check against.
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Old 05-08-2016, 01:41 PM   #28
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Thanks for sharing your info, Chiburbian! Will review later today and will email you in case of any questions.


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Old 05-08-2016, 05:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Ok, let's be clear of what we are both saying here.

I am saying that my car fired and ran without pull-ups (at least on the crank sensor, because the cam sensor pull up may be installed on my MS3x board).

Wither or not it ran optimally is another story, but I am 100% certain that there was no pull up on the board I looked at on my bench yesterday, and when I get my fully built ECU back I will happily pull it apart and check to see if there are any hidden pull-ups I may have missed.

This may be the reason why I had so many problems adjusting my VR pots.

So, should you install pull-ups? Absolutely. Somehow I must have been the anomaly. My only point in replying is to figure out if you are saying that my car did not run without pull-ups, because clearly enough for me, it did.
It's impossible to get a signal without one. Check R13 to R45; that's where I put mine.
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:05 PM   #30
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Quick update ... just adjusted R56 to get the voltage at R54 dialed in at exactly 2.5V, still same problem and not getting any signal but just one blue crank bar at end of crank cycle. The new sensor arrives on Monday, but this kinda already looks like it might be a problem with the ecu.

Does anyone have advice in regards to troubleshooting the VR input circuit?

If we get one blue bar in the composite logger and the VR input range (R56) adjusted to 2.5V just fine, is it an indicator that the circuit is working or could there be other components damaged (IC, etc.) that cause the "no signal" problem?

Thanks much in advance.

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Old 05-08-2016, 06:19 PM   #31
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This is a situation where a jimstim would have been really handy...
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:52 PM   #32
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the one blue bar at the end of the cycle isn't your crank sensor sending a signal, it's just a random blip in the log when you stop cranking.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:05 PM   #33
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Default We have crank!

Problem solved! Had an Electrical Engineer friend come over with his oscilloscope yesterday to help us solve the mystery of the missing crank signal. It took him about an hour to hunt down the problem. Turned out to be a broken trace in the VR circuit on the mainboard - unbelievable!

So we are seeing the crank signal now, yay (see attached screen shot), but noticed that the rpm reading in TS is not consistent during cranking of engine ... you see rpm for a couple of seconds, then briefly goes to zero, then rpm again for a while, goes to zero, and so on. Is this normal or is this an indication that something is not syncing up correctly, yet?

Wanted to relay a big thank you again to everyone who has helped us with guidance and insights so far!

Cheers
C.
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MS3X VVT - no crank and cam signal issue-screen-shot-2016-05-09-7.34.51-am.png  
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:14 PM   #34
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the polarity of your crank and cam inputs aren't matching.

what did you do to flip the cam input like it is? your earlier log it looked correct, where it's failing edge--now it's rising.


The double cam marks should be happening between the crank marks.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:25 PM   #35
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Ahh, thanks. That might have gotten changed in the TS Ignition Options settings by accident while we tried to troubleshoot the crank signal problem. Will check and change it back to falling edge again later today and then see if everything lines up.

Thanks a lot.
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:45 PM   #36
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Default We love that sound ... :-)

Hi there,

Once again a big THANK YOU to everyone who helped us getting over the initial hurdles - much appreciated!

Yesterday evening was the big moment of truth as we tried to start the engine for the first time running off the MS3X ... instant success !!! Engine ran almost too smooth for the first attempt ...;-). Now off to the dyno to get this baby tuned for max performance.

This is a great forum.
Cheers
Conny

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File Type: mov Engine run - share.mov (3.83 MB, 26 views)
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