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Old 07-20-2010, 04:34 PM   #1
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Default Problems installing MS just got from rharris19

Ok I'm installing a "Brain"3.0V MS my friend bought from "rharris19" on his 91 1.6L. Car setup is a 1.6 stock with greddy kit and 1.8 265cc injectors.

PS: thanks rharris19 for the great packing and on time shipping.

Its a standalone box came with harness and I was told it worked fine when removed from car so must be something I'm doing or not doing.

It still has Rharris19's MSQ file in there, using HiRes10G and 750cc injectors.

This is what I did.

Removed the stock ECU
Removed the air meter.
Wired the IAT sensor to the red and green wires on the air meter harness
Ran vacuum line into car.
Plugged in MS and vacuum line.

With no changes to his file, I turned key and it started ran at high idle 1800 and as soon as I hit gas died. I was surprised, so I looked over the install and noticed the vacuum line was not hooked up and when I plugged it into the MS it no longer would start. I leave it unplugged it idles???

When powered up the MS also shows -40* on the AIT and never changes. I have verified the wiring is correct from senor to AFM harness. Do these sensors go bad often?

So.....where do I go from here? Anyone got the calculated fuel #'s for 1.8 injectors, 265cc ones?

Thanks for all help!

MSQ is attached.
Attached Files
File Type: msq megasquirt201007201508 came in box.msq (35.3 KB, 68 views)
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:35 PM   #2
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Install WBO2

Change REG_FUEL

Set base timing



EDIT: On req_fuel, take whatever number he has there, and multiply it by 2.83

Also, run easy therm and reload firmware (unplug ignitor and coils first). This is assuming this is a fresh install of MegaTuner on your laptop.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:38 PM   #3
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No WB installed. Does it need one? I will not be doing the fine tuning, just have to get it running enough for a 4 mile ride to dyno where he can tune it with his WB on dyno.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:40 PM   #4
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No WB installed. Does it need one? I will not be doing the fine tuning, just have to get it running enough for a 4 mile ride to dyno where he can tune it with his WB on dyno.
If REQ_FUEL is right it will drive fine in open loop.

I've never tried, but I'm pretty sure it won't like closed loop situations...no feedback.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:43 PM   #5
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double check your ait connections -40*f = nothing plugged in.

raise your req fuelz, it's running without the vacuum line because it's injecting so little fuel with it connected; left off it's fueling based off 100kPa, so probably twice the fuel.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
double check your ait connections -40*f = nothing plugged in.

raise your req fuelz, it's running without the vacuum line because it's injecting so little fuel with it connected; left off it's fueling based off 100kPa, so probably twice the fuel.
Ok ran a new wire from orange on MS to sensor and than sensor to ground and it works! Sweet.


I am running into another issue (worst one yet) hydrolocked the motor with fuel? Ran fine this afternoon now it seems to have the injectors wide open all the time. Pulled the plugs and fuel sprays out when you turn it over. (fuel pump is jumpered in the test connector so on all the time, like this on my car for 3 years works fine) I swapped out the injectors and same problem. If I unplug the injectors no fuel in cylinder. What ever injector I plug in I get a spray of fuel out of that cylinder when I turn it over. What could have caused this? So what in MS could lock the injectors open?
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcantDo55 View Post
Ok ran a new wire from orange on MS to sensor and than sensor to ground and it works! Sweet.


I am running into another issue (worst one yet) hydrolocked the motor with fuel? Ran fine this afternoon now it seems to have the injectors wide open all the time. Pulled the plugs and fuel sprays out when you turn it over. (fuel pump is jumpered in the test connector so on all the time, like this on my car for 3 years works fine) I swapped out the injectors and same problem. If I unplug the injectors no fuel in cylinder. What ever injector I plug in I get a spray of fuel out of that cylinder when I turn it over. What could have caused this? So what in MS could lock the injectors open?
Disconnect the non-variable TPS and try again.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:53 PM   #8
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Searching I found a post on unpluging the TPS. Trying that now.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:01 PM   #9
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yes if its a standalone harness for a 1.6L and i built it anytime in the last year or so, you must unplug the tps connector unless you actually have a vtps.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yes if its a standalone harness for a 1.6L and i built it anytime in the last year or so, you must unplug the tps connector unless you actually have a vtps.
Again you are correct sir. Its running.


So it must be a late model from you. Any way to tell if the "fan mod" was done to control the cooling fans?


Thanks
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:15 PM   #11
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its on middle led
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
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its on middle led

Huu? Say what?
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:19 PM   #13
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look at codebase and outputs, middle LED will be set to output4, output4 will be set to FAN. and then fan controls will be active.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:31 PM   #14
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Is anyone going to say anything about his injector size? Without added fuel pressure, 265cc is good for what, 3psi? Might want to run with the wastegate flapper disconnected. That's what I did when my 1.8'a were in and my 460's were being serviced.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Is anyone going to say anything about his injector size? Without added fuel pressure, 265cc is good for what, 3psi? Might want to run with the wastegate flapper disconnected. That's what I did when my 1.8'a were in and my 460's were being serviced.
Never even thought of that. Like I said its a friends car and I think he was going with this theory but missed the part about raising the fuel pressure.


3 Fuel injectors

The 1.6L (205cc) fuel injectors have enough room to run about 5-6psi. However at this level, the fuel pressure required to get enough fuel into the motor through the small injectors becomes so great, that the injectors can actually lock. If you are running more than 140-150rwhp, chances are the injectors are maxed out. A very common upgrade is to install the 1.8L injectors. These will should provide you enough room to run about 7-9psi of boost (170-180rwhp).

94-97 (tan) 230cc - #195500-2180
99-00 (red) 240cc -#195500-4430
01-05 (Lt. purple) 265cc -#195500-4060




So 3psi is about it for 265cc at stock fuel pressure. Any easy way to increase FP with out an adjustable FPR?

Thanks
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:27 PM   #16
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Update.

Umpluged TPS car ran great. Took it to dyno yesterday and it got tuned (150hp @7psi) very safely. Made an hour of pulls. Took it for a ride all was well. Next day was loading car on trailer for VIR this weekend and si would not start again??? Sounded like it was hydrolocked, pukked pugs and it was...again.

So TPS is umpluged and the fuel injectors are wide open all the time. Shine a flashlight in the cyclinder you can watch them full up with fuel

HELP ASAP. Leaving for VIR in 12 hours.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcantDo55 View Post
So 3psi is about it for 265cc at stock fuel pressure. Any easy way to increase FP with out an adjustable FPR?
I'll answer this first. NO!

You need to raise it according to boost, so if you gently rev up to 6000rpm, you don't need to add any pressure. But if you floor it, create boost, it will need more pressure. The ONLY way to do this is a boost related FPR.


I see what you're asking now. You can get an aftermarket FPR, and adjust it up a couple dozen above stock. A few people use Ebay units, search around for the setup Braineack used with his custom intake manifold. the 265cc number given to your injectors, is technically [email protected]. So if you raise the psi, it will provide more fuel, which you'll have to calculate into your required fuel setting in your MS. Did I answer your question correctly?

As to the Sticking injectors, I really have no idea. All I could think of was the TPS. I believe the CAS determines when to fire the injectors and coils, could the wiring to that be toast? Check everything with a fine toothed comb, obviously you won't be able to run with this sort of problem...
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I'll answer this first. NO!

You need to raise it according to boost, so if you gently rev up to 6000rpm, you don't need to add any pressure. But if you floor it, create boost, it will need more pressure. The ONLY way to do this is a boost related FPR.


I see what you're asking now. You can get an aftermarket FPR, and adjust it up a couple dozen above stock. A few people use Ebay units, search around for the setup Braineack used with his custom intake manifold. the 265cc number given to your injectors, is technically [email protected]. So if you raise the psi, it will provide more fuel, which you'll have to calculate into your required fuel setting in your MS. Did I answer your question correctly?

As to the Sticking injectors, I really have no idea. All I could think of was the TPS. I believe the CAS determines when to fire the injectors and coils, could the wiring to that be toast? Check everything with a fine toothed comb, obviously you won't be able to run with this sort of problem...
As for the injectors, yep you got it. Gave up and put some 460 in there. I asked about "is there and easy wat to increase FP" because....I'm from the Ford 5.0 community and with those card you take off the stock FPR put a 13/16" deep socket on top of it and place it on a solid surface and spack it with a hammer and you have about 5psi more, two smacks 10...you get the idea. No I'm not kidding.

Back to the open injector problem at hand. Found it. I can't believe the odds that I had the same problem twice with this install and they had nothing to do with each other. First I did not unplug the TPS and it caused injectors to stay open and this time it was umpluged and I chased wires all over the place and than took apart the 37pin conector and found that the large blue wire that is bridgeing two posts came unconnected, resoldered it and it runs again. So what does that wore do? Can't believe the odds of it causing the same peoblem.

Now to go change the oil again (twice this week due to this injector issue) mobil 1 is getting expensive. At least it only hold 4 qts not 9 like my Mustang.

Thanks!
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