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Old 04-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
Is there any reason I should not take the entire bottom of that timing map and match mine? I'm talking about from the -6 to -20 PSI?
I scored about 3.5 mpg on a hurt motor at 78mph by tuning the cruise area.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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How does this look. Before is on the right.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #23
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do you set your car to go pig rich after 5.5k?


am i on ignore?
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:06 PM   #24
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do you set your car to go pig rich after 5.5k?


am i on ignore?
Wasn't sure if you were talking to me. If you look- after 5.5k not much has changed on my map. But my fuel map does not reflect any crazy change after 5.5k.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:08 PM   #25
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that's the whole reasoning behind the massive retard at 5.5K.

there's a correlation. haromony between AFRs, timing and EGTs and whatnot.


If it were me, I'd just copy the entire 5000RPM column across to redline. only retarding in the area where you acutally do have your AFRs set to go richer.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
How does this look. Before is on the right.
It looks pretty weak to me but you have a VVT job on there and I won't assume what the numbers should and should not be. Just get it on a dyno and get it right.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:42 PM   #27
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Hmm.. I found that my map was more retarded in some of the lower load lower RPM areas.

In theory I should be safe if I match the factory ECU timing if not increase above what they have the timing set to right?

And as far as the 5.5k goes- I rarely hit that area of the map as is. On the freeway at 80 I'm sitting at 3400.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #28
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why does it not make sense to you?
Because a narrow band O2 is darn near an ON-OFF switch that switches at 1 Lambda (~14.7:1 for gasoline). You could never control to an AFR of 10.2 with a narrow band.

OTOH, if the entries other than 14.7 really get used as open-loop mode multipliers, then I can see how it is workable. Seems convoluted though.

Looking at these tables, I see emissions and warranty rather than optimized performance in a lot of areas. Targeting 10:1 AFR at high RPM/high load looks like a kind of "soft" rev limiter (especially considering the "high load" we're talking about is slightly less than atmospheric).
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
Is there any reason I should not take the entire bottom of that timing map and match mine? I'm talking about from the -6 to -20 PSI?
You need to translate the Y axis to MAP.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #30
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yes oems have to target alot to make a fuel\spark map that can be used world wide and meet a lot of emissions requirement as well as their own warrnties.

Also running the engine rich helps at higher loads to keep the temp of cat under control and not overheat it.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
Hmm.. I found that my map was more retarded in some of the lower load lower RPM areas.

In theory I should be safe if I match the factory ECU timing if not increase above what they have the timing set to right?

And as far as the 5.5k goes- I rarely hit that area of the map as is. On the freeway at 80 I'm sitting at 3400.
then make yourself hit it by holding in a gear and reving into the area at cruise.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #32
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Tons and tons of cars gain a lot of torque, smoothness, and overall drive "better" with the megasquirt maps and proper tuning. There is nothing spectacular at all about the stock ecu fuel and spark maps.
I really don't see why everyone is so interested in this.
OP, If your lowend is not as good as stock it just means its not tuned worth a damn, and you need to get on that instead of trying to waste time converting the stock table for a "starting point". 80% of it, as mentioned already, is warrantte and emissions crap that hurts your performance if anything.

Only thing I'd be interested is seeing how the stock ecu controls idle, since I still haven't mastered a FLAWLESS idle with ms. But looks like some folks (like y8s, Reverant, and others) have shown videos of flawless idle on the ms3x so I'll probably pester them for their idle tuning secrets.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Tons and tons of cars gain a lot of torque, smoothness, and overall drive "better" with the megasquirt maps and proper tuning. There is nothing spectacular at all about the stock ecu fuel and spark maps.
I really don't see why everyone is so interested in this.
OP, If your lowend is not as good as stock it just means its not tuned worth a damn, and you need to get on that instead of trying to waste time converting the stock table for a "starting point". 80% of it, as mentioned already, is warrantte and emissions crap that hurts your performance if anything.

Only thing I'd be interested is seeing how the stock ecu controls idle, since I still haven't mastered a FLAWLESS idle with ms. But looks like some folks (like y8s, Reverant, and others) have shown videos of flawless idle on the ms3x so I'll probably pester them for their idle tuning secrets.

I'm just interested in the areas that are more advanced than what I was running. No point in that.

My idle is amazing with Adaptronic. I've honestly never been happier with an ECU.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #34
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That's because you let the stock ecu controll it, right?
Mine was controlled by the adap and sucked big time:(
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #35
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Nope. Adaptronic is controlling it now and it's flawless.

What issues were you having?

Mine targets 14.5 and doesn't fluctuate more than 3-5% and my idle target table usually targets the set idle within 75-100 RPM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Tons and tons of cars gain a lot of torque, smoothness, and overall drive "better" with the megasquirt maps and proper tuning. There is nothing spectacular at all about the stock ecu fuel and spark maps.
My car detonated at ~100kpa, sub 3000rpm with the factory computer and detonated at 100kpa and 6000rpm. That's why I'm fascinated. I'm leaner with more spark angle now and not detonating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
OP, If your lowend is not as good as stock it just means its not tuned worth a damn, and you need to get on that instead of trying to waste time converting the stock table for a "starting point". 80% of it, as mentioned already, is warrantte and emissions crap that hurts your performance if anything.
I recently watched a presentation from an MS guy who's an engineer for Ford and he talked about how they'd spend so much time on tuning and cold-start that I don't understand why they'd do such a "weak tune" aside from the wonderful 85-octane mountain fuel.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That's because you let the stock ecu controll it, right?
Mine was controlled by the adap and sucked big time:(
I fit's any consolation, Jeffman's car had some crazy whacked out crack ----- settings for spark at idle and idle valve settings on that supercharged car. They were pretty easy to get right on his supercharged car. For some reason the enrichment settings were a real bitch on my daily.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:05 PM   #38
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You really don't need crazy anything. I'm running 10 degrees ignition at idle with my idle valve in closed loop control. Once you get your PID settings correct (there is an excellent guide to this) you are all good. Just make sure your fuel is set properly.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:11 PM   #39
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I don't really remember what exactly the issue was with the Adap, all I know is when I switched to MS, id1000's and e85, 99% of the issues were gone and I was enjoying my car again lol.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:16 PM   #40
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Yeah. The only downfall I can see to the Adaptronic is that it allows you to change just about anything you could imagine. So unless you know what you are doing you can really put things out of whack.

But this in my opinion is way better than being frustrated with too few settings. My car legitimately starts runs and idles like its bone stock. Warm up and all.
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