Splitime

iTrader: (24)

Sigh, I like how I am being attacked by everyone and their mother who use's an fmu.

Tunable options (not just changing rising rates or standardized retard systems) will ALWAYS be able to extract more power all across the board... and create a more reliable system.

That is ALL I am trying to say.

I'm talking of the many tunable options out there... MS (which I never mentioned directly... but apparently I'm an MS snob), AEM, Emanage(not full system, but still better), Link, Hydra, etc....

Its all well and good that the fmu/afpr/etc can work to get a car running and decently... but why "cheap" out on the part that is the most significant? A build is only as good as its tune... an amazing parts list can have so so results if handled with generic adjustments.

I'm sorry I said anything though... I had thought with the older crowd here.. I would not be attacked with such lack of willingness to listen to other options/views.

I'll just go back to the MS forum here I guess.

btw braineack: I use the word reliability not to cover just the components... like fmu failures and such. But the entire system... especially the motor (the heart of the entire car). A full tune... will always create a more well balanced and longer lasting car. Always... I'm sorry if people do not agree... but there is a reason why high end cars end up at tuners shops... because they have the ability to get the most power out of a setup... and then (the good ones)... make it reliable.

F20turbo

ok

magnamx-5

iTrader: (7)

when you make 300 whp on the stock ecu then you might know as much as andy on this it can be done for less and still work reliably. the ecus are only neccesarry past 400cc in my opinion or 310 or so whp. with the fpr of course without the fpr you better get something to run some 650's to be happy with the same headroom. you arent a ms snob you are just to cautiuos live a little if it breacks fix it and make it better if it aint broke then dont fix it.

magnamx-5

iTrader: (7)

high end cars end up in tunner shops becouse people who own them ahve a lack of mechanical ability or will to wrench, and enough money to have soemone else do it for them. you might not be perfect at it at first but they werent either. so pratice on a moderate scale and replaceable system like a NA miata 1.6 or simialar and build up from there talent is there or it isnt but the skill is alot practice and research.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I dont dog on ems upgrades. Only that a fmu/bipes can work great up to a certain extent. I plan on doing an ecu upgrade down the road. But to say it's more reliable isn't really correct. I think saying it's more tuneable and adjustable is more acurate.

I could run this setup for years and years without a glitch, heck corky is building his new kits this way, with only the option to run Xede.

Do I have lots of adjustability? no. Can I get rid of my rich AFR after 5.5k? not easily. Can I run higher PSI? not really. Was that my goal? not yet.

A lot of guys here are looking to piece together systems and make around 160-170hp or so. I'll always recommend and easy setup for them, no reason to complicate things. Yes you can do a lot more, but technically a fmu/bipes setup can work just as well.

I'm not trying to attack you at all, but sometimes I feel like ecus are overkill. Not all the time, not at all. I was in awe when I witnessed Tom's and Bruce's GReddied miatas make over 200hp on 1.8 injectors, with perfectly flat AFRs.

I can currently run 305 injectors at 100psi and get enough headroom for around 275BHP, I don't see to need to upgrade yet. I could for sure squeeze a little more power out of the system, and I could benefit from pulling fuel in the upper rpm ranges. I really think it depends on the users goals, $$$, and how much automotive knowhow they have.

And besides, if I agree with you all the time then it's just no fun. :gay: Seriously, I hope there are no hard feelings.

Loki047

iTrader: (6)

Good everyone made nicey....