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Old 03-22-2010, 03:22 PM   #61
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So are we leaving this thread open for profiling reasons. This would be a great way to know who to ban...
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #62
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So are we leaving this thread open for profiling reasons. This would be a great way to know who to ban...
We're leaving it open because, frankly, it amuses the hell out of me.

Listen, folks. You all know that I'm pretty lenient when it comes to the ban stick. If somebody is spamming, or post-whoring their way into the classifieds, then they're gone. If somebody like Hyper shows up and basically demonstrates that they're nothing but a troll, then they're gone.

But if a newb shows up and asks a couple of dumb questions, even if they have already been asked and answered a dozen times already in the same thread, I might give them an avatar befitting their level of offensiveness, but I'm otherwise inclined to cut 'em some slack on the hope that maybe they'll learn something eventually. If we just ban every person who shows up that doesn't already have a PhD-level understanding of how Miatas and turbochargers react to one another, well, that's one sure-fire way to kill a forum.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:38 PM   #63
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We're leaving it open because, frankly, it amuses the hell out of me.

Listen, folks. You all know that I'm pretty lenient when it comes to the ban stick. If somebody is spamming, or post-whoring their way into the classifieds, then they're gone. If somebody like Hyper shows up and basically demonstrates that they're nothing but a troll, then they're gone.

But if a newb shows up and asks a couple of dumb questions, even if they have already been asked and answered a dozen times already in the same thread, I might give them an avatar befitting their level of offensiveness, but I'm otherwise inclined to cut 'em some slack on the hope that maybe they'll learn something eventually. If we just ban every person who shows up that doesn't already have a PhD-level understanding of how Miatas and turbochargers react to one another, well, that's one sure-fire way to kill a forum.
Agreed. It is very funny
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:21 PM   #64
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Judging from the pictures and description, it appears to be missing a downpipe, all of the pre-compressor intake plumbing, oil and water lines, and anything resembling fuel or ignition management.

But hey, turbo not hit block!
but what about the downpipe elbow comming off the turbo? or is that considered part of the downpipe?
thanks for the info ^_^
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:57 AM   #65
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but what about the downpipe elbow comming off the turbo? or is that considered part of the downpipe?
thanks for the info ^_^
Don't buy anything until you've spent 6 months familiarizing yourself with all of the different aspects of the possible arrangements and their benefits or drawbacks. If done properly, it will involve much use of the search button at the top of this page and reading through sometimes initially unrelated threads that distill into morsels of useful information. There are years of trial and error and accompanying advice from thousands of contributors and sources. Every question you have asked had been posed and resolved thoroughly and repeatedly such that our elder members can become weary of the questions. They see it as a sign of laziness when newcomers ask to be spoon fed. They treat those noobs less than graciously as an offhanded way of dissuading this behavior. As was once simply stated regarding this forum, "We are a helpful bunch, but we will not spoon feed you."

As one who has been there, there are three ways to proceed from this point. You may study and learn with the help of the forum and its tens of thousands of pages of resources, proceed against the grain and become more deeply frustrated, or acquire a complete kit from a reputable manufacturer and have someone tune it for you. I chose the first. Most that remain here did as well. The ones who chose the second option often leave without the information they seek. And many of the ones that choose the last option either don't need us or don't want to be bothered understanding how everything works beyond the ignition switch and the throttle pedal.

Most importantly, don't peragrate your build without proper time invested in study or regret will be your constant companion.

Most of us are quite friendly and very gracious, but tire quickly of the deluge of noobs every week requesting we regurgitate pages of data on demand. This is one reason you have been treated harshly by some. They also see it as an affront when sentences aren't begun with capital letters and ended with punctuation of some sort. It is seen as a sign of disrespect to the forum. Do not feel unwelcome, but instead feel a renewed understanding for the value the members place on the sanctity of our forum and its etiquette and decorum. Their remarks to you are to them as shooing a fly from their potato salad.

Good luck with your quest for enlightenment and your subsequent construction.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:45 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 View Post
but what about the downpipe elbow comming off the turbo? or is that considered part of the downpipe?
thanks for the info ^_^
I guess you could call the thing hanging off the back of the turbo the beginnings of a downpipe, but don't expect to get anything working with that setup if you don't have a MIG welder in your garage.

SixShooter summed it up pretty well, actually. We've been down this path so many times it's started to get frustrating. A lot of folks have bought turbo "kits" of that nature and either been so frustrated with what they got that they never actually managed to get it installed, or if they did, wound up having to re-weld or replace just about every part in it.

Now, there have been exceptions, of course. The first couple of folks who bought the cheap, Chinese-made turbochargers that you now see everywhere were initially laughed at and called idiots. But they persevered, had some failures, learned some things, and eventually proved that a $200 turbo can be made to work reliably. At that point, they went from idiot to pioneering hero.

But, it was a difficult row to hoe. And the folks who did it, for the most part, already had some knowledge and experience under their belt. IOW, they were equipped to deal with the challenges that once encounters in being a pioneer.

So, you originally asked "would it be a good or bad idea to buy this kit, and eventually replace the turbo with a legit turbo down the road?"

I think that the collective answer is that no, it would not be a good idea to buy that kit and then pour another $500-$1,000 into making it work, especially if you know you're just going to have to replace it all down the road anyway. If you're specifically looking for a challenge, know how to roll your own fuel & ignition controls, and don't actually need your car to work reliably, then by all means, give it a shot. Worst case, you're out a couple grand, an engine, and some downtime, and I give you an avatar of a broken piston over a rainbow. Best case, you wind up proving us all wrong and we laud you as a pioneer.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:27 PM   #67
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I'll add some random thoughts that recently popped into my head.

Part of the problem for us in knowing how to craft our responses, blindboxx2334, is that we don't know you. You're new here, and you haven't given us any information at all about your past experience, your fabricating skills, your budget, the sort of tools and equipment you have available to you, your level of competence and comfort in dealing with electronics and engine management, etc.

For all we know, you could be a master craftsman who fabricates chassis for Richard Childress, you could be someone who has worked on cars for a few years and knows basic mechanics but has never done a turbo system before, or you could be some random guy who lives with his parents, owns a 15 piece socket wrench set and two screwdrivers, and has never actually seen a turbocharger in person. We'd craft entirely different responses to those three people.

Experience has taught us that most folks who sign up and then, in their very first post, ask "is this $600 eBay turbo kit any good" tend to fall into the latter group.

So, seriously, give us something to go on here. We don't hate you... yet.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:08 PM   #68
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I'm a retard, and the moderators had to clean up all the **** that I posted.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 04-06-2010 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Retardedness
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:51 PM   #69
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Electropunk (aka DecoyOctopus) has been warned against his transgressions, and I've pruned the thread a bit, leaving only one of his posts intact as there's a waring attached to it. I'm feeling particularly generous today, which is the only reason that the ban hammer is still in the drawer.

Further discussion that it relevant may proceed. There shall be no further thread-crapping here.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:53 PM   #70
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Electropunk (aka DecoyOctopus) has been warned against his transgressions, and I'll probably prune this thread a bit later.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:04 PM   #71
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I'm a little curious about how well one of those cheap-o fleabay manifolds would hold up with a **** ton of bracing and such
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:40 PM   #72
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jeff im still waiting on the links to those cracked manifolds buddy

18psi one brace to support the weight of the turbo should be more than enough. once the weight of the turbo is removed from the manifold then all it has to do is channel air without melting and im sure its more than capable of that. even the begi tubular manifold requires a brace so i dont think the quality of the steel is to blame for the cracking. and from the pictures this guy posted the welds dont look all that bad.

Last edited by electropunk; 04-06-2010 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #73
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Jeff isn't your buddy.

Comparing that manifold to another manifold on the basis that they look the same is precarious. You have no idea what the thickness of the material is, what alloy was used, etc. Merely looking at the weld beads doesn't tell you much about what's underneath.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:17 PM   #74
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and I've personally seen them crack in non "joint" or welded spots before so saying "its just a metal tube that channels hot air" is bullshit too.

However, I'm still a bit curious as to what kind of heat EXACTLY they will take before shitting themselves strictly from a heat point of view. Assuming there is enough bracing to eliminate weight from being the culprit.

If with enough bracing and all welds redone (or reinforced) they become somewhat reliable I'd still get one simply cause they're so cheap and I have access to a welding machine and scrap metal.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:24 PM   #75
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jeff im still waiting on the links to those cracked manifolds buddy

18psi one brace to support the weight of the turbo should be more than enough. once the weight of the turbo is removed from the manifold then all it has to do is channel air without melting and im sure its more than capable of that. even the begi tubular manifold requires a brace so i dont think the quality of the steel is to blame for the cracking. and from the pictures this guy posted the welds dont look all that bad.
As Mr. Perez said, I'm not your buddy, friend, and I'm not going to waste my time searching for links to old *** posts.

I'm not under the delusion that all of them crack 100% of the time, but I've heard enough 1st hand accounts from people to make me wary of them. And before you get your lacy panties in a bunch and accuse me of sucking off the man and being loyal to a label, know that I have more ebay parts on my car than I care to admit, and some of them are a bit more critical than a manifold.

Quote:
and I've personally seen them crack in non "joint" or welded spots before so saying "its just a metal tube that channels hot air" is bullshit too.

However, I'm still a bit curious as to what kind of heat EXACTLY they will take before shitting themselves strictly from a heat point of view. Assuming there is enough bracing to eliminate weight from being the culprit.

If with enough bracing and all welds redone (or reinforced) they become somewhat reliable I'd still get one simply cause they're so cheap and I have access to a welding machine and scrap metal.
Perhaps getting the manifold properly re-welded so they penetrate all the way and utilizing a flex-joint and turnbuckle/heim joint brace to the 'shelf' would help longevity. Just from looking at them I honestly think the weak point are those shitty 'too neat' dime stack welds.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:25 PM   #76
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turbo manifolds are a series of tubes.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:30 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by electropunk View Post
jeff im still waiting on the links to those cracked manifolds buddy

18psi one brace to support the weight of the turbo should be more than enough. once the weight of the turbo is removed from the manifold then all it has to do is channel air without melting and im sure its more than capable of that. even the begi tubular manifold requires a brace so i dont think the quality of the steel is to blame for the cracking. and from the pictures this guy posted the welds dont look all that bad.
It also has to handle a 20lb turbo, maybe 20lb of exhuast, 360* of 1g+ at 1300*, lots of torsion, thousands of extreme heat cycles, 1.5-2x the pressure as the cold side typically, and survive harmonic vibration. Its not "just pipes to move air." The crane stops the harmonic vibration, not the load of all the parts or even the g-loading.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:55 PM   #78
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #79
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There is so much fail in that kit it defies reason.

No manifold
No fuel control
No timing control
No complete downpipe
Water temp sensor relocator.....

and my favorite...

Battery relocation box/kit to move your battery to the trunk
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #80
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There's an awful lot in that kit you don't need, not to mention its horribly overpriced. If this was a kit "specifically" for the Miata, there definitely wouldn't be a battery box- haha
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