EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning)
 

??

Me.

How.

I just tightened it all... and checked them after a heat cycle.

Thats it. Random nuts/studs/bolts from a bolt box pile :p

What are your laptimes in comparison to Spec Miatas on the same track?

Do you run a gasket between mani and turbo, Splitime?

This is probably completely misguided, and I'll probably be proven wrong in short order, but I just thought of a little theory that I'll run by you engineer types.

So, people say that it's not just vibration which loosens nuts, but also the thermal expansion of the metal. So, in a gasketless connection, there is nothing to compress so the metal simply grows and pushes the nut loose. With a gasket, there's something to compress and the nuts stay put.

Be gentle guys. :giggle:

No gasket.

So far the ONE single clean lap time I have vs spec miatas is I'm a second faster? No footage from later even more comfortable sessions... still learning car etc... but yah, ~1-2 seconds below spec miata times I've found.

I would say more that the heat expansion stretches the bolts and then when it cools again the nuts are loose even though nothing's turned.

but once you get to that point, it's a losing battle.

do all you cats with loosening bolts have cast manifolds?

SS stainless tubular...

Greddy FTL.

I'm betting that most or all of the people with this issue are running cast manifolds.

higher rate of thermal expansion?

I'm not a mechanical engineer so I won't guess at reasons. I just have excellent intuition :)

You mean a cast manifold and a cast turbine housing both expanding might stretch a stud?

I've noticed that all my BEGi supplied bolts that had the deformation on the end to grip the stud, all can be spun off by hand.

Titanium?
Resmond 907 threadlocker?
Inconel hardware?

some combonation of all that shit?

If the issue is not the studs themselves then no form of space age metal will help you.

are we fighting thermal expansion or vibration? Spacemetal may help one of those. If we can find a stud material that will stretch equal to the mild steel or cast iron, then all we have to do is safety-wire for vibration.

nitinol studs?

Why not just go for adamantium while we are at it?

my secret is fitting 11/16 studs in my m10 tapped manifold!

FWIW I did not see any evidence of loose studs on the T25 turbine inlet flange when I got back from MSR. Those nuts were tight, and there was no carbon blow-out visible anywhere at that joint. The 5-bolt flange at the turbine exit was also not leaking at the flange from what I could tell. I had a leak in that area, but it was unrelated to the studs/nuts. They were not super tight when I removed them, but still on there. When I unscrewed them, the studs came out of the turbo; the nuts were holding on to the studs securely.

This is all BEGI hardware, with the self-clinching nuts (oval-shaped), on a GT2871 running anywhere from 14-20 psi that day.

I really wondering something and it seems really stupid, but how many people have issues with studs backing out on bottom or even top mount manifolds? The reason I ask is that I can to the miata after owning an OEM turbo car(DSM) and never heard of anyone having nuts or bolts coming lose. Make me wonder, how many OEM turbo cars have side-mounted turbos version bottom. I can't think of any OEM car off the top of my head that has a side-mount turbo.

I don't have an issue anymore, I use studs grade 12 and Audi nuts with a Greddy manifold.

Standard FM 8mm hardware with track days, drag racing, canyon runs and auto-x days = never come loose.

my begi nuts no longer grabbed after a track day, I can spin them off with my hands. I wonder if Savington and I are on the loud pedal a lot longer than most here.

I've never seen a vertically mounted turbo lose its hardware from Boost Logic, a custom made piece on Andrew Brilliant's eclipse, and apparently the BEGi S4 manifolds don't suffer from this either.

Are any of the mentioned, cast manifolds?

no, all tubular. Matt's racecar sees tons of tracktime and doesn't have this issue. I've never seen a sidemount log manifold stay tight.

FM cast mani here.

Do you or don't you have issues?

Greddy cast/ no more problems, .

I have the Greddy manifold and don't have issues anymore, Mostly track use, and I don't drive slow. sorry for the double post, don't know what happend?

Don't.

Can you guys without problems tell us how fast you're going? Compare to SM lap times. The fast Cali track cars are going between 6 and 9 seconds faster than SMs at every track.

only had the problem with 1 bolt. haven't had a problem in a long time now. i seriously doubt you and sav are ''on the gas longer'' or that it would matter. you trying to say your too fast for your nuts? lol

anyways, if that was the case, i've been to vir with really long straights (oak tree is a 2nd gear corner leads to loooong straight 140+ mph.) tws is a lot bigger and faster track than msr-c, and there is a track in the rio grand valley (actually cameron county airport) that the pca uses with a really long straight. might be 3/4 of a mile long! 135+ mph there too. so if being on the gas mattered, then i or my buddy's msm with the begi turbo upgrade would be having the same issue's but we don't.

not sure what your mani. looks like, but is there a way to double nut and tighten against each other? or what about a little metal tab that sits against one side of the nut/bolt to keep it from being able to turn? i saw something like that on a car before. anybody know what that's called? or i know someone mentioned it before, but what about a small tack weld? somewhere easy to get to if you needed to grind it off too remove the bolt later. i hate shit like this. the simplest problems can be the most frustrating. good luck

With all respect, I doubt Hustler is 'fast' in your book Sav. Nor am I and I am on my third set of studs-n-nuts.

I think it could be down to:
a) fastening procedure, retightening after the first 2-5 heat cycles?
b) heat shielding/temperature differences between cars?
c) resonation of down pipe, engine block and other peripherals?

Instead of talking shit about people you've never met in your life, shouldn't you be balls deep in a tranny hooker in the redlight in wooden shoes?

No. I don't think there is anything elite in shearing studs, as Savington thinks - nor is boning some underpaid skinny ass fake blonde bitch from eastern europe. Both suck balls.

Now that I think of it the only thing I did differently in the set up Im running now with no problems is CAT high temp anti-seize the can says that its stable at 1800F, but that should make it easier for them to come loose not harder.

Does it seem that the FM provided studs and nuts don't have the problem and BEGI's do?

Enter your info into the survey here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t35901/

I don't believe the "longer on the loud pedal, faster driver" theory. A setup with 2* less timing and slower driver would have higher EGTs, and a slower driver on a track with a longer straight would stand on the gas longer than Sav.

Wish I could, but our local track is actually a large go-kart track and there's no SM lap times to compare. I am within a few seconds of the lap record for Miata's if that's means anything. (with less suspension mods)

I've seen FM hardware have the same problems.

I made my speed comment because I've seen a direct correlation between the speed of the turbo car and the occurrence of this issue. The guys who do 1-2 track days a year, full-weight street cars on street tires, never have a problem. The guys who are on r-comps, doing 6+ events a year, and actually going fast, have the problem. I recall VagaXT commenting on how he never had the problem, and then he showed up to Streets in December with NT-01s, laid down some stupid fast laps - and struggled all day long with nuts and studs backing out.

Maybe has something to do with all of the weight hanging off that side of the motor, and the extra G-forces that the race cars are pulling?

or maybe you're just driving like a pussy. Seriously. Do you go out there for blood or to cruise around and "have fun"? I go to the track because my mother never loved me and I never met my father, and now you have to fucking respect me or I'll wear your face as a fucking mask.

I never had any problems till i got close to spec miata lap times. Then i blew my motor :(

mmmmm......blood!

No reason to go for blood, it's not a race. And the car is my daily as well, can't break it.

We're driving our cars differently...that's why your hardware hasn't failed.

AKA you are slow.

Hardly.

You said you were within 3 seconds of the GJMS record, which was (I presume) set by one of the FM cars. I don't want to sound like a dick here, but I know how fast I am in comparison to the cars that are 3 seconds ahead of you. I came very close to rear-ending the fuck out of the Westfield exiting turn 6 at Laguna in March. I don't think there was an FM car within 5 seconds of me.

3 seconds on a 1-minute track puts you around 10-12 seconds slower than the cars we are talking about here. Certainly a respectable time, but not really on the same page as the cars we are discussing here.

Since I haven't tracked this year yet I'll use my last years experience.

My manifold is a custom 45deg/topmount SS log, 3" SS downpipe, no gaskets, no leaks(machined flanges) with a 2871 and I was using shitty bolts everywhere.

I was shearing studs like I was cutting disco in 79', winning or in the top 3 at every track event up here (I know that's not saying much really), so I beat the piss out of the car quite often but I'm sure my problem was my exhaust system and the amount of pressure/weight that was acting on the turbo system.

The exhaust is a full 3" system with magnaflow muffler (mild steel), has a flex pipe right after the dp and weight to much imo.

I eventually broke the weld and the turbo inlet flange right in half after I sheared two bolts and keep going, vibrations ftl.

This year I'm running a v-band at the dp-exhaust system, arp bolts, and I'm rehanging the exhaust and using different hangers (rubber garabage sucked and move to much) and that should fix my issue, I hope.


-Dean

That was also last year, on my old suspension and 195 Hankooks.

Haven't run this year yet with the new turbo setup, MS, coilovers and 225 hankooks. I'm going to guess I could pick up at least a second. We'll see...

Hey Sav speaking of the Streets, are you going on the 19Th? is anyone else going on the 19Th?

I don't know when my next event is going to be. The new build is taking much longer than anticipated. July? :(

Still waiting on details of new build. :bigtu:
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blahhhahhahaboahlbhablhablahb fine i'll go make a thread.

waaaa waaaa waaaaa.

Just in time to drive out to Texas and shit on your chest, Mr. Backmarker.

oh shit son, I might have to drive out to texas just to see this cleveland steamer. how many miles is that? 24 hours of le moans.