Alright guys, it's now 2am here and after multiple 14-16 hour days I've finally produced a "pre-production" spec kit and installed it on our own NC. This kit was produced using the same method, jigs and component list that will be shipped to each customer. Over all I'd estimate the installation will take an end user around 7 hours and a 6-pack or two to complete. This is in a perfect world with the required tools on hand. This time will be quite a bit shorter for a shop with a proper lift and appropriate tools.

The installation was impressively smooth. It's not an easy installation by any means as the NC engine bay is VERY tight - but each component fell into place just as it was designed to without any questionable actions required.

Whats next? We now have measurements for coolant/oil lines and a proper list of needed components. The first kits will be packaged this week and 3 pre-production guys will be invoiced for their remaining balance.

With zero tune we were able to do very little driving but it seemed VERY eager to get into boost...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1454222956

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1454222956

I'm gently nudging this thread so Fab9 can post a picture of the optional coating for the charge pipes. He posted it over on M.Net but has probably been too busy to cross-post here. They look fantastic :)

We need to hire you. Cheers.

Ok guys - Wrinkle black seems to be the most desirable finish. Just wanted to give you guys a quick glance before you see it anywhere else.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1454603168

Looks very nice. Would like to see more shots of the bay and underneath to study how these new bits integrate.

Just ordered my 3 Bar MAP....Not much else to do and I will be 100% ready to get this thing installed.

We just ordered a handful of clutches for inventory. Our NC didn't make it through one pull before the factory clutch let go.

If you're in need of one send me a note, we're discounting supporting mods for our pre-production customers.

Was this on the dyno? :)

I have the FM happy meal, hopefully it holds up.

Unfortunately no, it was on the first pull after flashing it. 1st,2nd,3rd no traction, 4th, 5th clutch slip. Spool is unbelievably quick.

The ACT Clutches we're stocking up on are 430ft lb kits. Not sure what the happy meal is rated for.

The Happy Meal is very conservatively rated at 260 ft/lb, I know Joe runs them on a few boosted 2.5L without issue. Don't know what the breaking point is, but my end goals are 300-350. Time will tell....

Alright gents, another late evening producing these kits. As many of you know we run the very busy e-commerce side of the business during the day. These kits, with their attention to detail and immediate popularity have truly become a business on their own and we have you early adopters to thank - not for the late hours but for reminding us why we're in this industry. You preproduction guys have been the most important factor of this whole process. That support has pushed us harder to make this kit stand out, use better materials, and refine our fabrication processes.

For us it's not good enough that we're doing the best WE can, we're driven knowing we are creating the best solution, period.

Wrapped up 5 charge pipe kits last night in addition to the 3 that are already produced and shipping Monday. Not sure the other guys have room to rub anything in, these are pre-production customers, not kits. We've sold nearly a dozen of these kits and are on schedule to have 8 of them will be shipped in less than 3 weeks - Didn't take over a year to get a single car on the road :dunno:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455379060

The quality of this manifold is truly unmatched. The prep that goes into each schedule elbow piece really shines through on the final product. Fully chamfered, perfect fitment and back purged welds that will perform as good as they look.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455379060


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1455379060

We will try to keep updates frequent but it's crunch time now that each component is finalized.

Gorgeous product. Compared to the competition who literally welded the exhaust side of the turbo to the manifold to keep it on, there really isn't a comparison. Stupid cheap NCs these days+this kit looks like a bargain path to having a ton of fun.

+1

I am pretty close to getting an 06 here pretty soon, as long as it checks out. I will have to put a built 2.5 in it first, though, as the early 06 motors have turned out to be pretty grenade-y, even at stock power, much less with a 6758 on it!

Yeah, the '06 thru '08 had the bizzaro rod bearing issues; they'd go AWOL seemingly at random. Even folks with stock power levels would suddenly find themselves strapped to a low yield shrapnel bomb while putzing down the street in traffic.

I'm not as convinced about the superiority of the 2.5L over the 2.0L, although it truly depends on what you are looking for. I prefer the happier-to-rev 2.0L block, as the 2.5L has the far lower rod-ratio which gives it great low-end grunt but kinda falls flat after 5k. If I explodey my 2L block, I'll probably either go full LS-tarded with it, or else build a bored 2L block with better flowing heads and a set of aftermarket cams.

Also don't forget: the NC transmissions, even the NC2 and later models, all seem to give up when you cross the 350TQ line with any regularity. I'm going to see what I can do (with assistance from my tuner, of course) to keep the torque at or near the 300 mark and just use the extra RPMs to make power. That still gives me headroom for a 400HP monster, hopefully with less worry about shearing teeth or cracking the case.

We shall see.

The 2.5s are nice that they have enormous rods, a much better flowing head, and they can still safely Rev as high as every other mzr that doesn't have a keyed crank snout

Well... If we're talking "built motors" which is what Chili was alluding to, the stock rod thickness is mostly meaningless. Even if we're not, the stocker 2.0L rods from the NC2 and later can deal with as much power as the stock transmission can take.

I agree with the higher flowing heads, although if we're talking built motors again, you can just swap the 2.5L heads onto the 2.0L block and we're back at square one.

Also, while the 2.5L can rev as high as the other MZR's, the shorter rod ratio means the torque rolloff at high RPM will be significantly worse. Even with cams, even with head work, the rotating assembly geometry isn't right for an efficient high-revver.

Finally, all things equal, the 2.5L swap still ends up mating to the NC transmission, which is fundamentally limited to something moderately below 400TQ. A "built" 2L would end up being cheaper, have a flatter powerband, and would still out-power the capabilities of the transmission when compared to the 2.5L.

Can't argue with more displacement, I get that. Still doesn't seem like a real slam dunk to me :)

Yeah I wasn't talking built motors. The rods on the 2.5 on like they belong in a diesel.
All the mzrs without a key (all stock) on the crank pulley aren't recommended to be run above 7400 rpm based on the testing cosworth did developing race motors and people have run stock 2.5s to 8k already.

The biggest difference is that there's at least 3 2.5s between 300 and 750 at every single junk yard near you, where you're lucky to find an nc2 motor at all and if you do they're around 2k. If you already have an nc1 motor it's probably cheaper to buy the nc2 forged crank and oil pump from mazda and put aftermarket rods in it than buy an nc2 motor.

Take the .5 liter displacement with a turbo any day. Tune to hold 300wtq. According to some of the reading, 2.5 doesn't need to be built. What's not to like?

And I've never been a fan of stroke/bore ratios being responsible for rpm capabilities. That's the job of cams/headflow/intake manifold flow. At least on any passenger car derived engine.

I haven't actually seen the rods on the 2.5L; now I'm genuinely curious. The Cosworth 7400RPM thing is a bit of a headscratcher, since the 2L blocks are factory 7500RPM redline and there's a number of them out there doing 8K+ for racing application.

I guess the 2.5L block is cheap because of all the Fords using them? I know the Fusion is a common and plentiful donor.

If the limit is 300TQ (and it should be, if you want the transmission to live a reasonable life) then it's just as easily attained on the 2L block. Sure, more displacement = more better, but since we're power limited by other parts of the drivetrain anyway...

It's a physics issue, not a preference. The higher peak piston speeds in a lower rod-ratio engine mean flame-front propagation speed vs timing challenges at high RPM, they also drive higher head flow requirements because of said piston speed changes.

A lower rod-ratio engine means smaller delta between average and peak piston speeds, meaning you can keep slightly smaller valve openings to maintain velocity (versus having to go for outright flow to keep up with the higher piston speed) which helps with atomization and more efficient cylinder evacuation and filling. The lower peak piston speed also means slightly longer duration (given equal RPM) for your ignited air/fuel mixture to exert force on the face of the piston during the power stroke.

Both reasons are why longer rod-ratio engines have a flatter power curve. Any work you do to a shorter rod-ratio engine to "overcome" these two obstacles can be equally applied to the longer rod-ratio engines with the same results.

The only REAL win here is apparently the significant cost difference due to cheap, plentiful supply of good quality junkyard donors. I didn't realize how big the difference was until I did some google thanks to Leafy, but he's right - the 2.5L blocks are cheap.

The extra displacement helps a bit, sure, but you're going to snap a transmission if you really want to use it all. Given how cheap they are and given how the NC1's like to eat rod bearings, I think Chili has it right -- the 2.5L swap is probably the best way to go afterall if he's buying an '06-'08.

Yes I understand the concept of piston dwell. But rod ratio is not stroke/bore ratio. And the 2.5L has a taller deck so you could install a longer rod if you absolutely felt it was necessary.

But you are overlooking the fact that people are already revving the engine to 8k on stock internals as pointed out by Leafy. Most likely because they have increased head flow/cams/intake manifold. Not because they have increased the rod ratio to match the 2L.

But we can agree to disagree. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing the TIG jewelry on your car.

Sure, I also completely understand it's personal preference. i made sure to mention that in my first reply :D Part of me wants to know if I could build a destroked 2.5L -- I like basically everything else about the 2.5 except the rod ratio. And yes, I know the difference between stroke / bore ratio versus stroke/rod ratio :)

I'll be taking way too many pictures as it all goes in. If you (or anyone else here) have any specific pictures you'd like to see, just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

When Turns101 did MZR swap into NB he did something to it. Can't remember if it was a bored 2.3L or a destroked 2.5L or a sleeved 2.5L making it a 2.4L. Just jibbering out loud.

But my co-driver has a hard on for NC's so whatever pics you produce I'm sure will just intensify his rage to get rid of his blue balls!

Dont forget, Quad4Rods has MZR/Duratec to T5 bellhousings in stock and Astro gear builds T5s all the way too 500something ftlbs. And they just finished up a batch of them like last week, one of which is shipping to me.

No replacement for displacement.

I like the 1.6 because it revs faster.

1.8s are junk.

Ah shiiiiiit, power goals just got real. Next weakness would be the diff and getting rid of the PPF. I do know the RX8 diff is not a direct fit, but it doesn't need to be modified too much.

So AlbFX, if the 2.5 can be built with a longer rod, because of the taller deck height, doesn't that help solve your gripes? You just said 2.5 blocks are cheap as hell, so there you go.

While we're at it, smaller turbos are shite. If it isn't as big as we can go, it isn't right. This EFR6758 is nonsense, we need a 9180 because bigger is better bar none.

( False equivalency is a thing, you know this right? ;) )

The T5 bellhousing adapter is cool, I'm checking that out when I get home tonight.
Well, the deck height isn't THAT tall. We're talking several millimeters, not centimeters. Depending on where the pins are located in the piston, it might be possible to have custom pistons made which relocate the pin further up, allowing a longer rod underneath. Realistically, a new crank is what is truly required. Since there are several MZR's out there, my curiosity mostly surrounded other compatible crank options for the 2.5L block.

I'm not really worried about it for now. :)

Deck height difference is 14mm. So yeah with custom rods and a 2.0 crank you could build a very silly motor into a 2.5 block.

Aren't you using Dynotronics for your tuning? They already have a silly crank for the 2.5. Ask Joe about it! JE also makes custom FSR pistons all the time.

Yessir, I am.

In an attempt to get this train back on the tracks, Bryan / Fab9 has started shipping the first three kits, although it sounds like he's short on boxes :D

I have my tracking numbers. Something evil this way comes...

As we work through the remaining open orders it's always exciting to see you guys wasting no time at all to get your installs going...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457405005

More units going out today... The two on the right are for NA/NB 1.8L

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458316810

I swear he does some of the very nicest fab I've ever seen. Amazing.

Can't wait to take pictures of all of this in my driveway before it goes in the car :)

Gotta be extra careful with handling the manifold so I don't muck up the gorgeous coloring of T304SS when it gets good and hot a few times :D

This was just tooooo good to not snap a picture of! Until now we've been shipping these kits in chunks, rarely did we have all of the components in one place at the same time. (excuse the pretty bronze color of the pipes, these are for Mr. Tony)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458847146

That looks very nice. How does the downpipe attach to the rest of the exhaust. I believe the one I see has v-bands on both sides. Does where it hooks up on the stock exhaust use v-bands?

Great question - we have a mid-pipe adapter.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458847544

That is very interesting. Do you then put a clamp over the part that goes to the mid pipe? Or does it seal closed on its own?

Stainless clamp - this for some reason was pictured without the clamp installed.

Now that you guys spent all this time engineering the best turbo kit ever... make a bolt-on oil cooler!

I have already bought an NC specifically to put this kit on a few weeks ago, but I do know I will need a lot more than just the base kit to be track reliable. Where are you guys on the vaccum pump kit that you were talking about a while back?

P.S. You guys need to convince the Enthuza guy to make a version of his 3" exhaust for you guys with v-bands to have an easy bolt-on solution.

Enthuza is working on the TDR remote mount craptastic setup, so I don't know what agreements he has to not work on other competitors setups. I will say he does many awesome exhausts. I had one on my NA for 6-8years or something and it was great. I shipped it off recently to another user on here who is enjoying it.

TDR is not a competitor really. We have a healthy standing relationship with Jay at the moment. However the remote mount setup will be a single batch thing from what I understand.

As for an exhaust system - we will produce our own complete, stainless V band exhaust system. I just need to get these kits fulfilled to clear my schedule for jigging.

Thank you! It's truly flattering to hear you've purchased a vehicle specifically based on the quality of our kit. We have an oil filter adapter plate in the works to address our only hurdle with a high quality Setrab oil cooler kit. Stay tuned, this spring should be the start of some big things.

Awesome! Just please make proper use of Helmholtz chambers. No one likes drone. :likecat:

I haven't done anything mechanical on my NC yet, so forgive my ignorance, but didn't Moto-East already make a oil filter plate? Or are you talking about something else entirely?

We will absolutely not be using a helmholtz chamber. Modern resonators are capable of drone control. If you ask me, a helmholtz chamber is a great fit on a vehicle with limited exhaust length or when aluminum or titanium are being used.

I believe they do. We'd like to improve on the concept by including the proper baffle shape on the engine block side. So keep an eye out for one of our own.

The MotoEast plate is basically a 1/2" plate with two 8AN tapped holes for oil feeds, and the four necessary holes to attach it to the block. You still have to relocate the filter yourself using whatever plumbing you like, and presumably tee or series plumb it into your oil cooler similarly using your own equipment.

My understanding is Bryan / Fab is working on an alternate method to relocate the filter AND get the external cooling connected all in the same plate. Hopefully :)

I think from my search of pimpy parts for these motors I found someone selling an oil filter housing that kept the filter there but had built in provisions for an oil cooler. I think it was part of one of the dry sump kits that put the pump inside the pan.

Alright guys, we've been working with Joe from Dynotronics to get a solid customer base tune to get you guys rolling. Very impressed with how this car has incrementally increased power with each adjustment.

This car is an absolute dream to drive. I don't have the words to describe how enjoyable this thing is. Perfect drivability, very quiet, super responsive and linear power delivery. We're on very low boost and it's a complete monster. Had the car out logging on Friday here in Michigan on Woodward Ave. If you aren't familiar with Woodward Ave, it's probably one of the most dense populations of performance cars cruising around each weekend and this thing took everyone by surprise..

One instance specifically comes to mind, we ran into a C6 Z06 and the owner flagged me down into a gas station after we pulled ahead of him by at least a car length from a 1st gear roll race. Seriously impressive power for the low boost levels we're running.

We're using the Dash Command OBD app for some easy to follow, on the fly monitoring and it recorded a peak horsepower estimate of 406whp. I thought this sounded a bit inflated so Joe reviewed the logs and calculated it's making around 392 based on airflow. I don't think we will push this factory bottom end much further and truthfully I can't imagine I'll want more with how manageable this thing is. Keep in mind we're running 285 drag radials in the rear.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459801795

I'm really looking forward to taking customers out in this car... I wouldn't be surprised if we converted every single passenger to a customer after a quick spin in this thing.

You should mention the exhaust you're using to get those power figures ;)

I should have, it's our simple downpipe adapter, stock mid-pipe and some cheap aftermarket exhaust that the previous owner installed. Very quiet..

... Which is absolutely ludicrous; 400hp on a stock midpipe makes my head hurt.

I'm doing my best to beat you to the all-3"-turbo-back setup! I may end up beating you to the shrapnel-bomb-stock-block if I'm not careful :likecat:

Are you freaking serious??

I will have to get a 6258 and run 10 psi to not blow the transmission to pieces on the track...

We need dyno plots and spool numbers STAT!

Just to note, you can adjust the pre-load on these wastegates to achieve under 10psi easily.

There has to be a video somewhere....

Sounds fantastic. Great work guys.

Looks like my parts should be in Joes hands sometime today....Can't wait.

You'll probably beat me to the completed installation then :( Married + kids makes self installation progress at a much slower pace.

Really depends on Joe, he told me to expect up to 15 days for install if he doesn't have much in front of me. If it was not for work and losing access to the lift I always used, I would be spending all weekend and be done with it myself. But with Joes install I know he will do a good job and I will have a running car with a dyno plot in hand when I pick it up, so it works out I guess. I am just not a very patient person.

Some time next year after caging and all, I will be taking it back to him for a built 2.5 swap if all works out. I have some other small items that need to be taken care of first.