New Turbo Kit in the works. - Page 6 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Prefabbed Turbo Kits A place to discuss prefabricated turbo kits on the market
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-19-2008, 02:40 PM   #101
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas
Posts: 39
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MazDilla View Post
It's the logo for the new Mustang targeted at aging boomers. It encapsulates the essence of speed and acceleration by drawing upon the demographic's collective experience with spicy Mexican food and rectal dysfunction.

In academic circles this is referred to as the Habenero Hemorrhoid Paradigm.

It also signals to this great generation that after decades of success the Mustang has finally "come of age". No sir, this isn't your father's mustang. This 'stang's for you, Gramps!

To help alleviate any lingering memories of discomfort the New Mustang is equipped with a soothing Preparation-H air freshener.
you guys have a clever sense of humor

buck
BamBam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 05:09 PM   #102
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

Hey guys just posting an update. Got the 1.8 flange design finalized and the first set is supposed to be cut out and machined this week. Here is what it looks like rendered in 3D CAD software:

MiataTurboFlangeFinal.jpg

Notice the transition from the oval port shape to the circular shape of the manifold tubing.

MiataTurboFlangeTopView.jpg

Heres the face view, just for another look at the details.

More details, and pictures of the actual flanges later this week.

Last edited by jc_rotor; 09-22-2008 at 05:31 PM.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:27 AM   #103
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 373
Total Cats: 36
Default

That oval-to-round transition in the flange is way too abrupt. You're better off just oversizing the ports in the flange. That way you can form a nice gradual transition in the primary tubes themselves (just squish the ends of them gently in a vise). Then slip the primary tubes into the oversized ports in the flange and weld them on the inside and out.

This way, the flange can easily be lasered or water-jetted and will be cheaper, and the joints from flange to primary tubes will be stronger and less likely to warp during fab.
JKav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:30 AM   #104
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkav View Post
that oval-to-round transition in the flange is way too abrupt. You're better off just oversizing the ports in the flange. That way you can form a nice gradual transition in the primary tubes themselves (just squish the ends of them gently in a vise). Then slip the primary tubes into the oversized ports in the flange and weld them on the inside and out.

This way, the flange can easily be lasered or water-jetted and will be cheaper, and the joints from flange to primary tubes will be stronger and less likely to warp during fab.
+1
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:50 AM   #105
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKav View Post
That oval-to-round transition in the flange is way too abrupt. You're better off just oversizing the ports in the flange. That way you can form a nice gradual transition in the primary tubes themselves (just squish the ends of them gently in a vise). Then slip the primary tubes into the oversized ports in the flange and weld them on the inside and out.

This way, the flange can easily be lasered or water-jetted and will be cheaper, and the joints from flange to primary tubes will be stronger and less likely to warp during fab.
The ports are slightly oversized, and the counterbore of the circular holes is actually sized to the OD of the primary tubing, so that they will actually sit down in them about 1/8". That should keep the warpage to a min I hope. Ive used a similar design in a manifold for a 1.8 acura integra and had no problems. The flow will be out of the port opening and into the primary directly.

I agree that it doesnt look that smooth, but once all the pieces are in place it makes for a very nice fit and smooth transition. See integra manifold below:

09-18-08_1035.jpg

09-18-08_1034.jpg

Thanks for the advice though, Pat mentioned a smoother port opening so I may play around with that too, and see which one works better.

And youre right, the main thing is keeping it economical, so the feature may be deleted altogether. Wont know until I get my hands on one later this week.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:54 AM   #106
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

Also, the ports on the B18 honda manifold are more towards the top of the counterbore and the bottom only has the transition, may try something similar to this as well. It is only a few clicks of the mouse after all.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 11:05 AM   #107
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

squeeze the tubes! I'm sure you can make a fancy fixture that sits in a hydraulic press to do it. then you can make the counterbores ovalized like the ports and the tubes will be your transition.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 12:05 PM   #108
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

so you want me to crush (basically) the Tubing on a Stainless Tubular manifold? this is not some cheap mild steel manifold. Please tell me why I would want to press the tubing? thats just going to give it a weak area for future failure. That doesnt make sense.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 12:44 PM   #109
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,484
Total Cats: 248
Default

Don't ovalize/squeeze/crush the primaries at the head flange.

muhahhaa
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:03 PM   #110
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Don't ovalize/squeeze/crush the primaries at the head flange.

muhahhaa
what does absurdness do?
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:37 PM   #111
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 373
Total Cats: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc_rotor View Post
so you want me to crush (basically) the Tubing on a Stainless Tubular manifold? this is not some cheap mild steel manifold. Please tell me why I would want to press the tubing? thats just going to give it a weak area for future failure. That doesnt make sense.
If you're using tubing (16ga) then you should swedge the tubes over a form. Use a vise / fixture if sch10 pipe. It's a non issue.
JKav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 02:10 PM   #112
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,484
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
what does absurdness do?
I ovalize the primaries. If the fabricator of the OP's (Jason?) manifold uses this flange and tries to market them to this audience, and I decide to get off my **** too, then the absurdness would have another benefit.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 03:26 PM   #113
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,382
Total Cats: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I ovalize the primaries. If the fabricator of the OP's (Jason?) manifold uses this flange and tries to market them to this audience, and I decide to get off my **** too, then the absurdness would have another benefit.
I've been thinking lately of bugging you to build me some Absurdness... Dooo et!!
elesjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 04:20 PM   #114
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc_rotor View Post
so you want me to crush (basically) the Tubing on a Stainless Tubular manifold? this is not some cheap mild steel manifold. Please tell me why I would want to press the tubing? thats just going to give it a weak area for future failure. That doesnt make sense.
Here's why:

  • Simpler
  • Cheaper
  • Faster
  • Prettier
  • Less transitioning
  • Flows better
Doing it any other way doesn't make sense to me. You say you had "no problems" before. I'm not saying it's a problem, but for all you know that transition costed you 10 HP. You won't know unless you test it. Don't ASSume it's better when it goes against common wisdom. My presumption is crushing pipes to match the ports will make more power, and just so happens to be easier, cheaper, and simpler to build.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 06:33 PM   #115
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

Well, honestly i dont think it makes that much difference in flow. You have to remember which way the gases are flowing here. They are coming out of a relatively small diameter port compared to the 1 1/2 ID of the SS piping.

Plus like i said, ovalizing the primaries will create stress points in the form. If you take this O and turn it into () this, then the sides that have a smaller radius will have pre stress from the pressing, forming, and whatnot. And which form do you think is better for flow? Crush a drinking straw and blow through it and youll see what i mean. The ID of the tubing is very close to the extents of the ports and after its welded on the outside, the inside can be ported to match the size and you have no restriction, plus you have the knowledge that its not going to crack on the first heat cycle. This has to be a reliable manifold.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 07:00 PM   #116
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 248
Default

Well I don't think crushing the pipe a little bit is gonna hurt it, at least not mild steel. I've never seen or heard of one cracking from it being crushed, have you? Heat cycle it afterwards if you are worried about it. If for some reason I could not crush the pipes, I would just weld them right to a regular flange. It would flow about the same as your tapered one and be a lot faster and cheaper to produce.

Somebody with time, fab skills, and some common sense needs to man up and start making decent affordable manifolds. There's not much market for a $700 manifold. That's all I'm saying. It's not like their are a slew of $600 heavy duty tubular manifolds available from 14 different vendors and yours for 700 is worth the jump in price. Not like they all use steel crushed pipes and the manifolds break in half within an week, or the inferior mild steel welds are just cracking left and right. Not like your 700 dollar one is gonna corner some market. If you made ANYTHING that was a mild steel regular length 4:1 turbo manifold that accepted a t25 or t3 turbo for 500ish bucks you would sell the hell out of them. Who's gonna buy an ETD shorty manifold for 500 when they can get the full length one that flows better and makes more power for the same price? ETD claims they've sold hundreds of their shorty manifolds...
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 07:21 PM   #117
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,923
Total Cats: 0
Default

JC, what's your background? Most of your posts sound very intelligent and well thought out. But, at times I feel like I'm reading a book on how to build a manifold from someone that has lots of book smarts, but lacks real world experience.
JayL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 07:25 PM   #118
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

^Absofuckinglutely.
FM/BEGi/ETD/HKS/JGS... is anybody else making production manifolds?

So that's 5 total and HKS really does't count and Greddy isn't a factor? Competition is good for the consumer... but 4 real options just aren't enough. Tim might be #5 someday...

Within the next 6months, I'll be building an NB turbo in some form or another... right now it looks like I'm back to the cast BEGi unit for absolute reliability and ease of install. I wish I had more choices.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 10:23 PM   #119
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMX5 View Post
JC, what's your background? Most of your posts sound very intelligent and well thought out. But, at times I feel like I'm reading a book on how to build a manifold from someone that has lots of book smarts, but lacks real world experience.
Read the whole post for background info.

I do not do this for a living. I work in the field of Mechanical Design but not always with turbocharging. I design things like this for my job all the time but most of the time I have a team of designers that I collaborate with.

So I dont have extensive experience with designing turbo manifolds but the people at Top Speed that do this 6 days a week, 48 weeks a year do. Im taking my knowledge and applying it to the real world with the help of the guys there at the shop. It was per their suggestion all the design changes in the flange.

I know it doesnt always pan out exactly how its planned on paper but in my experience it gets pretty damn close.
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 11:20 PM   #120
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 0
Default

whoops read the whole thread for background info!
jc_rotor is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
LucaCarMods's Boosted Dutch Miata Build! LucaCarMods Build Threads 11 02-14-2016 07:13 AM
Koni 1150 Coilover Kit drumman83 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 2 09-25-2015 08:03 PM
WTB 90-97 miata low profile headlight kit DonPlatt WTB 0 09-25-2015 03:57 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:07 PM.