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Old 06-01-2010, 04:28 PM   #21
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It isn't how long you burp it, but where you burp it. Air will not go down to come out. If you have a higher spot at the back of the head than any part of the hose coming forward you will have air in it.

And follow Hustler's advice on sealing the bumper inlet to the radiator with no leaks, after all, he is a moderator. If you don't do it he will ban you.
Actually, I think I mentioned it also.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:00 PM   #22
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How is the fitment with the PWR radiator? Can you keep your AC unit with that one? Not sure if I'd have to replace the fans I have now if I went Koyo or PWR.
I've got the stock A/C condenser and the Track Dog Racing intercooler in front of my PWR radiator. It had to be moved and tilted back a little, so there was some cutting done.
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According to his excel sheet of mods/repairs that previous owner gave me...
110 mm s/c pulley
131 mm crank pulley
Well, something's wrong there; maybe Flyin' Miata has the correct specs. Nobody would put a pulley ratio of 1.2 on an MP62 supercharger.

For example, I'm running a 120mm supercharger pulley and a 60mm crank pulley. That gets me 225 max rwhp.

This also calls into question the previous owner's claim of 250 rwhp.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:10 PM   #23
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I've got the stock A/C condenser and the Track Dog Racing intercooler in front of my PWR radiator. It had to be moved and tilted back a little, so there was some cutting done.

Well, somethings wrong there; maybe Flyin' Miata has the correct specs. Nobody would put a pulley ratio of 1.2 on an MP62 supercharger.

For example, I'm running a 120mm supercharger pulley and a 60mm crank pulley. That gets me 225 max rwhp.

This also calls into question the previous owner's claim of 250 rwhp.
Yeah, a definite d'oh.

Here's the guy's tech sheet of everything he's done... http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...wYTRrLVE&hl=en

I will say though that it does feel faster than my lightly modded s2k, but you only need about 155 whp or so on the Miata to be about as quick as the s2k if you're just using power-to-weight ratios.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #24
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If you have a tuning question, much like you alluded to on the other forum, you should ask it here and not listen to those bench-racing ******s on the other board. BTW, Stanford is cool in my book.

You should especially ignore the guys who run around in $30k cars and brag that they outran you on their home track...yet can't seem to find their datalogs to compare for when they were gang-fucked in the wet.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:23 PM   #25
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If you have a tuning question, much like you alluded to on the other forum, you should ask it here and not listen to those bench-racing ******s on the other board. BTW, Stanford is cool in my book.

You should especially ignore the guys who run around in $30k cars and brag that they outran you on their home track...yet can't seem to find their datalogs to compare for when they were gang-fucked in the wet.
I will definitely have tuning questions for you all on this board as forced induction is a completely new field to me. I have the Hydra Nemesis software setup on my laptop but I need usb-to-serial drivers first to get it connected. But that's for another post.

Yeah, Stanford is a cool guy. I autocross with him at the SASCA and SPOKES events here in town. His red s2k is a beast!
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:24 PM   #26
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Yeah, Stanford is a cool guy. I autocross with him at the SASCA and SPOKES events here in town. His red s2k is a beast!
Doesn't it now have the sequential box and the ford IRS?
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:26 PM   #27
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Doesn't it now have the sequential box and the ford IRS?
Something to that extent. Everything from the transmission back is non-honda, haha.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:32 PM   #28
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Something to that extent. Everything from the transmission back is non-honda, haha.
for people who don't know:
s2k
Full Race gt35r parts (450whp or so)
Motec 8c
Getrag sequential box
ford IRS
Moton w/ external tanks
ccw10's w/275f 315r Hoosiers
fast
fast
fast

and he's pretty good at tuning:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/Stan2.php
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:40 PM   #29
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Here's a quick vid of my Miata when I arrived in Provo, UT to stay for the night...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5uTcHh3qWI

Here's Stan's S in front of me at one of our autocrosses (it was dusty that day)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92QeqLa0m8
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:27 PM   #30
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Wow, so the previous owner sent allllll of his documentation of what has been done to the car. Receipts, installation guides, everything. Very nice!

BRPerformance Track Dog Racing MP62 Supercharger (installation guides mention R1 (205whp) and R4 (250whp) packages). The invoice does not specify a package.
Invoice states: TDR MP62 supercharger kit with 6-rib pulley, 95mm crank pulley, 70mm throttle body. Below that it mentions Gates 6-rib supercharger belt for 105mm crank pulley. All purchased 5 years ago (2005).

Hydra EMS & injectors installed 2 years later (2007)
Dyno Tuned shortly after

Timing belt, Water pump & gasket & o-ring, fuel filter, & clutch slave all replaced at 63k miles in 2007

110mm crank pulley installed beginning of 2007 but documents state "did not work, gas mileage went down to 21mpg" Not sure if he kept or not.

Supercharger rebuilt in 2008 at 70k miles

Those are the main points in the documents aside from all of the suspension upgrades and the TDR Intercooler. I'll be checking the thermostat later this week or sometime on Saturday. I have engine/tranny/&diff fluid coming in soon to replace.

Oh! and I finally got it registered in Texas. Woot!
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:02 PM   #31
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See if it has the TDR style radiator ducting. If it does, go ahead and buy a PWR radiator unless you're a cheap gay (like me). A PWR with the TDR plastic ducting/blocking plate crap is proven to work in 100* heat at the track. If you have questions about specifics, PM johnwag who works at TDR. He is my boyfriend.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
See if it has the TDR style radiator ducting. If it does, go ahead and buy a PWR radiator unless you're a cheap gay (like me). A PWR with the TDR plastic ducting/blocking plate crap is proven to work in 100* heat at the track. If you have questions about specifics, PM johnwag who works at TDR. He is my boyfriend.
Are there any other solutions for the intercooler? I was at our local autocross meeting tonight and brought the Miata over. Everyone was telling me the TDR radiators don't let much airflow through it which is most likely causing the issue. They said even if I shrouded it, it wouldn't do much. One had put a fan on one side (off of the car) and couldn't feel much on the other side of the intercooler. I haven't gotten a chance to look up into the bumper area to see if there is any type of special TDR ducting. The intercooler, ac condenser, and radiator sit basically right next to one another since the intercooler piping enters and exists from the top rather than the sides.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:58 PM   #33
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Are there any other solutions for the intercooler? I was at our local autocross meeting tonight and brought the Miata over. Everyone was telling me the TDR radiators don't let much airflow through it which is most likely causing the issue. They said even if I shrouded it, it wouldn't do much. One had put a fan on one side (off of the car) and couldn't feel much on the other side of the intercooler. I haven't gotten a chance to look up into the bumper area to see if there is any type of special TDR ducting. The intercooler, ac condenser, and radiator sit basically right next to one another since the intercooler piping enters and exists from the top rather than the sides.
Let me share a little advice with you about the Austin crew...they're wrong most of the time. Most of those dudes on the trackjunkies forum are checkbooking it and love to run their mouth about how much you don't know and how they hold a lap record on some track in some bullshit capacity...I can't believe how many people I know in Austin who have a lap record they're willing to share, its pretty lol. Barry Wolf is one of the few I know with a clue. I've met a few cool guys like the guys who run TXMC of course, but there are a couple who can eat my **** on toast. I've met very few who know how to make a car work on the track...most just take it to JC and throw their hands up in the air and cry.

There is a short list of people in Texas with reliable FI Miatas, I'm one of them, Gary who owns TDR is another and with a big radiator, blocking plates/ducting, and his FMIC set-up he sees "good" intake air temps verified with a gauge in his 300whp car and the car runs wonderfully in the heat. The kit you have is tested on the track, and has proven reliable over the past 5-years with very few problems on hundreds of cars.

I've only run in Austin once but it was very entertaining to see the suspended disbelief when I ran my turbo car without overheating, like they'd seen a ghost.

You can do better ducting than what Gary sells at home, though his will get the job done. We have threads here about ducting with lots of pictures or you can look at my car next time you're in Dallas. We've told you what to do, we know what works, we've done it before...so do whatever you want.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:56 AM   #34
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This wasn't the Austin crew. These were the San Antonio autocross guys; I know autox and track are different so let's not get into that, they've been to the track. One currently has a turbo'd NA miata and ran into similar issues. Other friend has had super and turbocharged CRX and were sharing their experiences with me. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes I'm just trying to get different points of view on the subject so I'm not stuck on one path hoping it'll work. This whole area of expertise is brand new to me so I'm taking in what I can.

I'm currently reading other build threads to see how people have been ducting their intercooler/radiator setup.

Last edited by RavynX; 06-03-2010 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:14 AM   #35
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Heh, interesting. I was able to view the Hydra Nemesis EMS software while driving the car tonight. AFR ranged from 14.2 - 15.2 cruising on the highway.

Ambient Temp: 20* C (68* F)
Speed: 63 mph
Tach: 3100 rpm
------------------------------------------------------
Fan Speed: 0
A/C: Off
Coolant: 88* C

Fan Speed: 1
A/C: Off
Coolant: 88-90* C

Fan Speed: 1
A/C: On
Coolant: 89-92* C
===========================


Ambient Temp: 20* C (68* F)
Speed: 75 mph
Tach: 4000 rpm
------------------------------------------------------
Fan Speed: 0
A/C: Off
Coolant: 89-90* C

Fan Speed: 1
A/C: Off
Coolant: 90-92* C

Fan Speed: 1
A/C: On
Coolant: 92-93* C
===========================

Arriving back at the apartment, idling in front of the garage with A/C off and Fan Speed at 0 temperatures climbed from 88* C to 95-104* C
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:38 AM   #36
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:52 AM   #37
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Those tables are fine. I know a lot of the spokes guys...I don't know any that can run their car in July at HHR without overheating. They also don't understand the need for ducting. If you're referring to that teal/mint green miata...nice guy, sincerely cool dude, great driver...that car was a little "disjointed" last time I saw it.

On to the cooling discussion:
See this car, it makes well over 350whp...easily. This is pic is from when "we" ran it in the Mojave desert in 101* heat. See that little air foil divider thingy 1" below the top of the bumper-mouth? That's all the air that goes to the radiator, which is ducted, and it runs cool.

The TDR FMIC set-up works, I've seen the data first hand, you're auto-x buddies have not, and this set-up is proven to work over and over for the last 5-years in Texas heat by drivers who are no slouch.

This is pretty simple, you can dick around and try other stuff and spend more money or you can put a radiator in it, duct it, drive the car...or you can waste your time and fail. There are a handful of people here who've tracked turbo Miatas in the summer successfully, we know what to do.

BTW, I think Savington has a badass radiator for sale.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:57 AM   #38
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On to the cooling discussion:
See this car, it makes well over 350whp...easily. This is pic is from when "we" ran it in the Mojave desert in 101* heat. See that little air foil divider thingy 1" below the top of the bumper-mouth? That's all the air that goes to the radiator, which is ducted, and it runs cool.
Care to share some more details (or a link to same) on the arrangement of ducts behind that little air foil divider thingy? Would I be right to think it diverts the outlet of the IC to exit below the car?
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:08 PM   #39
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Care to share some more details (or a link to same) on the arrangement of ducts behind that little air foil divider thingy? Would I be right to think it diverts the outlet of the IC to exit below the car?
It dumps to the sides and there is a chamber built for the radiator. I don't have any more pics but you can search for them from the old magazine article now on the "modified mag" website when Matt wrote-up the build with SCC. edit: http://www.modified.com/projectcars/...ack/index.html


You can also get it on Forza now:
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:52 PM   #40
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It dumps to the sides and there is a chamber built for the radiator. I don't have any more pics but you can search for them from the old magazine article now on the "modified mag" website when Matt wrote-up the build with SCC. edit: http://www.modified.com/projectcars/...ack/index.html


You can also get it on Forza now:
That's full of Win right there! haha.

I've never worked with sheet metal before so this ducting stuff will be quite an undertaking for me. Wish I had a bigger garage.
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