gtred

I've used this car a few times now in wheel to wheel racing, and when I really start to pick up the pace... and go deep in the braking zone, I have problems judging just how deep to go. I'm running an 04 miata with ABS.

There is no feedback. The pedal doesn't kick back; you don't hear any pre-lock-up squeel; the pedal just gets... well: hard. Kind of like brake fade. It's not at all confidence building. Worst, I can't seem to judge how deep I can take it.

Anyone like racing with the miata's ABS? If so, what do you feel for with threashold braking?

Miater

Sounds like you need more time on track.

What pads, fluid, rotors are you using?

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Newb thread. you need to confirm a good bleed, then practice.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

In the wet, yes I love it.

With a proper "motorsports" tuned ABS, yes, I like racing with it because it will be faster.

With a shitty OEM ABS system, and upgraded brakes so the ABS gets a confused, that I don't like so much.

gtred

Willwoods, hawk ht-10's, blues or PF pads. High temp fluid.

I mean it stops... I just can't reliably find the edge. In the past I was a racer that really used up the braking zone... now, not so much.

Can you explain your "motorsports" tuned ABS? Do you do something like unplug, fine adjust/tune your bias thru prop valves or dual pedals and then plug the abs back in?

What braking technique do you use other than just the "plant it hard and pray" technique that I'm currently using?

M.Adamovits

IIRC Emilio uses ABS on all his race cars.

gtred

Emilio: What to you feel for just before full lock up? I've got a PIR non-chicane race coming up... almost a full mile straight and into the low 140's before an 85mph left. I've got to get to where I can brake hard at the 4 marker and then scrub off speed with the turn-in... reliably; every lap.... in order to keep up; or the "straight-line fast" ITE cars are going to pass me there.

At this point I'm not feelin' it... and want to unplug the abs fuse.

midpack

iTrader: (3)

This man speaks the truth.

gtred

Well then, seems I've gotten my answer. I'll leave the brakes to the computer another event or so.

In the formula car, you can feel every little twitch and hear each wheel for feedback. In the MSM, the brakes are just heavy and there's so little feedback.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

If you haven't added a prop valve to the system, you're not going to be faster than a non-ABS car.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

It's 2013, stop using pads from the 80s.

gtred

Ha! I bet you can't disco...

Sav: I'll take you up on the prop valve. I suppose I'm supposed to dial in more front brake bias until I get reasonably even f/r lock and then plug in the ABS?

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

I don't know of any such thing for a miata...

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Factory ABS relies on the ABS to do all the proportioning. The caveat here is that you have to actually engage the ABS to get the proportioning working - it will add rear brake after the ABS engages on the front, but that happens way too early. You need the ability to dial in the bias with the ABS unplugged, and then you can use it effectively.

Motorsport 4-channel ABS like the Bosch M4 system is ~$10k IIRC. Since I'm already adding ABS hubs/rings to Theseus for the Racelogic system, I briefly considered adding an M4 ABS system too, until I saw the price tag. $10k buys an awful lot of flatspotted Hoosiers.

JasonC SBB

Ah, finally a plausible explanation how the 01+ EBD works.
FWIW the 99/00 systems have a prop valve and don't use ABS for proportioning.

Wouldn't the EBD system cause heavy understeer during trail-braking then?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

NB ABS + prop valve = win

Take some practice to get the most out of and nothing I can write here will help. Just go scare yourself until you get the feel for it.

949 Racing SuperMiata - YouTube

hustler

iTrader: (6)

I can

JasonC SBB

Do you mean the 99/00 ABS and replacing the factory prop valve, or taking an 01+ with EBD and adding in a prop valve?

JasonC SBB

The more I thought about this, the more downsides I see to this simple algorithm. Did you come to this conclusion from observation or from a good description of EBD?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

nb2