brake duct air entry 3D printing - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-09-2014, 01:44 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default brake duct air entry 3D printing

Anyone try a design to 3D print a funnel that goes from this type of slot to 2.5" or so brake duct hoses?

Anyone handy with 3D software?

Attached Thumbnails
brake duct air entry 3D printing-brake-duct-entry.jpg  
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 01:48 PM   #2
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

will that little hole move enough air to cool the brakes?
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 01:59 PM   #3
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

With stock plastic in place I would rather make ducts from the one inch gap below the radiator ending in a hose attachments poking through the sides of OEM undertray just in front of the steering rack.
I have made one rough paper mockup and it looks possible, for someone who can channel energy in the right direction.
No extra opening in the front
Very short hoses
Foam strip below the rad replaced with something useful.
Folding thin aluminum and some tape would do it...
So why haven't I done it yet...
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 02:03 PM   #4
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 492
Default

Measure the hole to find out.. 3" hose has ~7 sq. in. area, 2.5" hose ~5 sq. in.

Keep in mind that an opening low and to the side of the bumper like that, especially without a splitter below it to build pressure near the inlet opening, will be less effective/efficient by some percentage. I'd probably want that opening to be ~1.5x the area of the hose given its location.

-Ryan
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 02:11 PM   #5
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

I was thinking of making an insert for the GV lip NA brake duct if I ever get around to it.

Pass made some good points. Figure out the cross sectional area of that inlet first. If it is adequate the easiest way would be a digitizing arm get the CAD envelope would be easiest. Or use some can of foam to prototype it then reverse engineer it into CAD
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 03:15 PM   #6
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,367
Total Cats: 1,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
will that little hole move enough air to cool the brakes?
IMO, no. If you're going to hamstring the ducting by feeding it through tiny holes, why bother at all? I get plenty of people asking me how to attach brake duct hose to the R-package inlets, and I tell them not to. If you want effective ducting, run dedicated holes in the bumper or route it alongside the radiator (inboard of the undertray) and attach it to the corners of the mouth.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 03:26 PM   #7
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,878
Total Cats: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
IMO, no. If you're going to hamstring the ducting by feeding it through tiny holes, why bother at all? I get plenty of people asking me how to attach brake duct hose to the R-package inlets, and I tell them not to. If you want effective ducting, run dedicated holes in the bumper or route it alongside the radiator (inboard of the undertray) and attach it to the corners of the mouth.
NB fog light holes.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:29 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 549
Total Cats: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
NB fog light holes.

--Ian
not an effective location for brake ducts. At that point in the bumper the air is already headed nearly perpendicularly to the direction that you want.

IE, laminar flow Laminar flow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
EErockMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:51 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
not an effective location for brake ducts. At that point in the bumper the air is already headed nearly perpendicularly to the direction that you want.

IE, laminar flow Laminar flow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Air is heading perpendicular to that location at the fog light when it is blocked off because there is no where else to go (path of least resistance). Once you open up the hole and create a low pressure zone you will have air flow through the fog light hole.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 07:05 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 549
Total Cats: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Air is heading perpendicular to that location at the fog light when it is blocked off because there is no where else to go (path of least resistance). Once you open up the hole and create a low pressure zone you will have air flow through the fog light hole.
I don't think it works like that. Air is headed in that direction because of the nose of hte car is pushing it aside and around the car. Therefor the air is already headed in a direction perpendicular to the hole.

This is what i've been told by others and then confirmed with my own research. YMMV i guess?
EErockMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 07:15 PM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
I don't think it works like that. Air is headed in that direction because of the nose of hte car is pushing it aside and around the car. Therefor the air is already headed in a direction perpendicular to the hole.

This is what i've been told by others and then confirmed with my own research. YMMV i guess?
What kind of research have you done? I'm not saying your wrong as I have no research done on this subject. It just goes against what my intuition tells me should happen.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 08:45 PM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: durham NC
Posts: 767
Total Cats: 115
Default

Assuming the cross section is adequate the easiest and cheapest way to fabricate these would be similar to how subwoofer boxes are made. You can use that process to make a plug, create a split mold, and then make the final part out of fiberglass.

I have come to the conclusion that the FDM printing available to most consumers sucks at making thin walled ducts. SLS printing thin walled parts works a lot better but it is expensive.

asmasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 01:39 AM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: near Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 49
Total Cats: 13
Default

We did the Fog Light brake duct solution on our NB1 (the 99 racer). It worked great for us in the great white north…
All prices are by memory but you get the idea... total ~ $240 with shipping from various suppliers.
$20 ebay fog light rings,
$20 Aircraft Spruce 2 1/2" duct flanges (an Emilio recommended supplier), ALUMINUM FLANGES FOR DUCTING from Aircraft Spruce
$30-60 2 1/2" air ducting – a wide range in prices based on temp resistance and quality...
$125 Aluminum brake duct backing plates from ISC, Miata power train
$20 hose clamps, wire ties, screws & nuts, aluminum strip, other stuff.

I merged ideas from 949 (brake cooling duct running - attaching it to the sway bar and end links), ISC, plus I like the fog light rings to keep everything clean. Alternately, forward facing ducts in the rad air inlet should also work…

ISC Brake ducts:
Like – they direct the cooling air at the center of the disk, wheel bearing and the inner pad / caliper. The design forces cold air into the center of the disk for maximum vane effectiveness. Inside face of the disk is not covered so it benefits from any additional air that happens to pass by the 9” 6UL wheel.
Don’t like – the lower backing plate rubs on the lower ball joint boot. I reshaped this for more clearance and had it tig welded. You also have to cut off the wheel speed sensor boss from the spindle so no ABS. Our race regs do not allow ABS so not really an issue for us.

Effectiveness – on a typical summer day for us (75-80 F) we had to tape off about 1/3 of the air inlet as the front brakes were running too cool vs the rear (without the tape we had to continue to adjust the bias throughout the race since the front brakes never really heated up however the rear brakes did changing the front rear balance). At about 95 F or so, it worked fine without tape.

The car has stock NB1 brakes & PF97 pads. No inner fender liners, no brake backing plates front or rear.

Previously configuration WITHOUT air ducts - The front rotors would glow red on one or more braking zones per lap (depending on track). Calipers got hot enough to discolor 750F caliper paint at the outer pad. Engine near stock (RB header + 2 1/2“ exhaust).

The fog light entry and 2 ˝” ducting worked for us, with more HP & larger brakes better ducting & more air flow may be needed.
99Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 01:15 PM   #14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

The slots in the pic in my first post are 6x1". That's 1.5x the area of 2" brake ducts.

I agree foglight holes would be great but I use 1 already for my oil cooler. It's a small Setrab but drops temps 7*C in a 5 mile steep slow mountain road run.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 01:56 PM   #15
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
The slots in the pic in my first post are 6x1". That's 1.5x the area of 2" brake ducts.

I agree foglight holes would be great but I use 1 already for my oil cooler. It's a small Setrab but drops temps 7*C in a 5 mile steep slow mountain road run.
With a splitter I bet you would get good airflow through there. Without one I think it needs some testing to determine it's worth the effort. There's not much at that location preventing the air from going under the bumper vs through that hole.
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3d printed intake for N/A NA miatas asmasm Engine Performance 534 11-20-2017 06:50 AM
Bolt on VVT swap dyno Uncle Humjaba Engine Performance 45 10-31-2016 11:52 AM
Flyin' Miata is hiring! [email protected] Flyin Miata - Miata Accessories 15 07-22-2015 12:55 PM
How-TO: DIY Ford Escort GT Grill Vents... MikeRiv87 Useful Saved Posts 58 02-04-2009 03:49 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:39 AM.