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Old 10-12-2015, 09:30 PM   #81
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No.

Massive rotors (applying more torque) and dtc60 pads (extremely high mu, meaning more torque) means you're putting a lot more torque (funny how that works) on slowing down the wheel than with smaller rotors and less aggressive pads. This locks up wheels easier. R7s resist lock up better than old crappy street tires.

Yes, the rotors are better at dissipating heat, and the pads are better at operating at a high heat.
I haven't used R7s, but the similar-but-softer A6s are a hell of a lot easier to lock up than any street tire I've ever driven (supposedly due to being light).

Yes, you get more torque from bigger rotors and aggressive pads. So... be more gentle with the brake pedal? We're only talking about a ~ 20-30% difference in braking force here.

Putting HP+ on the car is just a recipe for fade and melted pads.

--Ian
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:58 AM   #82
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Tried out Hawk's DTC50 pads over the weekend in the front, prior was 60.

I like them better than the 60s, modulation was great and bite was just slightly less. Wish I would've had them sooner in the season. Definitely a factor in my 1st place wins both days in E, as well as a new track record.
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:28 PM   #83
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Tried out Hawk's DTC50 pads over the weekend in the front, prior was 60.

I like them better than the 60s, modulation was great and bite was just slightly less. Wish I would've had them sooner in the season. Definitely a factor in my 1st place wins both days in E, as well as a new track record.
congratulations!
that was the point i was trying to get across to everyone. more is not better.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:03 PM   #84
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Old 10-15-2015, 01:03 PM   #85
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I have been running the wilwood Dynalite's with stock 1.6 rears for a while. Running willwood's H compound in the front and some porterfields r4's in the rear. It has been working but even with a prop valve i am not getting enough bite in the rear. Thinking of changing front and Rears out for something new. I do like the initial bite of the H pads but i would like more modulation. wish i had a way to test multiple pads at once.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JSpeed6 View Post
Tried out Hawk's DTC50 pads over the weekend in the front, prior was 60.

I like them better than the 60s, modulation was great and bite was just slightly less. Wish I would've had them sooner in the season. Definitely a factor in my 1st place wins both days in E, as well as a new track record.
What pad did you run in the rear with the DTC50s up front?
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:35 AM   #87
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HT10's
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:01 PM   #88
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HT10's
Awesome thanks. I think I'm guna have to give that combo a try since I have some hawk-bucks.

Running XP8f/AX6r currently no prop valve and I experience some rear lock-up under heavy braking(T1 and T10 at ViR, T7 at Road Atlanta). I turned the rebound down(faster) in the rear and that helped some. I suppose I've been on RS3s the whole time too, so R7s would be a different story.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:53 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by flier129 View Post

Running XP8f/AX6r currently no prop valve and I experience some rear lock-up under heavy braking(T1 and T10 at ViR, T7 at Road Atlanta). I turned the rebound down(faster) in the rear and that helped some. I suppose I've been on RS3s the whole time too, so R7s would be a different story.
Carbotech XP pads shouldn't be mixed with AX pads.


I am using XP10F/XP8R with RS3's/Rivals (no abs or prop valve) and this setup works really well for me. The seem rotors develop "heat spots/patches" after every track day but Carbotech said that is normal as long as there is no vibration/feedback.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:49 PM   #90
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I am using XP10F/XP8R with RS3's/Rivals (no abs or prop valve) and this setup works really well for me. The seem rotors develop "heat spots/patches" after every track day but Carbotech said that is normal as long as there is no vibration/feedback.
I get those same heat spots every time, too. Eventually it feels like ****. I feel like a moron at this point, a) for continuing to buy Carbotech pads, b) for apparently not being smart enough to make it work while everyone else seems to be. I know they're being bedded properly. If not, they're the most ridiculous pads to bed in ever.

I had this problem on stock brakes, bought the 949 BBK, still have this problem.

robert
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:33 AM   #91
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I ran carbotechs for years with zero bedding problems, other than the fact that every set of pads felt veeeeery slightly different. I finally fucked up the bedding process on a set last year and was never able to get them to come back to life. I've always bedded pads on the street, but I tried to bed that set during the first laps of the first morning session and I overheated them. I started paying the extra for the "pre-bedded" option after that and have been really happy. Every set of pre-bed pads has felt exactly the same and worked perfectly right out of the box.
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:52 AM   #92
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I started paying the extra for the "pre-bedded" option after that and have been really happy. Every set of pre-bed pads has felt exactly the same and worked perfectly right out of the box.
I have been paying for the pre-bed option, too :(

What is your process for bedding a new rotor?

This time I am going to try XP12/XP10. Maybe I just don't have the right pads. I've also tried ducting, which I do think helped a bit.

robert
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:37 AM   #93
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^Repeated 70-10 stops until the pads stink and the pedal goes a touch soft.

Let cool completely.

Done.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:45 AM   #94
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^Repeated 70-10 stops until the pads stink and the pedal goes a touch soft.

Let cool completely.

Done.
That's what I've been doing. I guess we'll see if the compound change helps or not.

robert
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:58 AM   #95
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Flip side, is if you don't like them, maybe you should try something else?

Then again being in a 1.6 Miata with Wilwoods at all 4 corners only used at Hallett, it's not like they were ever seeing a ton of heat.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:03 AM   #96
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Flip side, is if you don't like them, maybe you should try something else?
I don't know, really. I figure they work for so many people, they ought to work for me. I like the way they feel when they're working. The price point is good. I am insane.

robert
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:36 PM   #97
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So what are the conditions when they aren't working? Or is it seemingly random? You don't drive your Miata on the street much do you? I thought I remembered reading somewhere (so don't take this as gospel) that street driving and the cold temps will messup the transfer layer.

If I can make up my mind about tracking the BRZ, I bought Winmax W5 pads to try. But I haven't installed the other necessary parts to take it to the track. And I don't think I will this season.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:07 PM   #98
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So what are the conditions when they aren't working? Or is it seemingly random? You don't drive your Miata on the street much do you? I thought I remembered reading somewhere (so don't take this as gospel) that street driving and the cold temps will messup the transfer layer.
I don't think it is random but I haven't really figured it out. It sees zero street time. I thought it was at short tracks that didn't give a lot of time between turns, so I added ducting, and I think that helped but not cured things. I'm going to move from XP10/XP8 to XP12/XP10 and see if that doesn't help.

Realistically, I should slap some Hawk stickers on there and try some DTC-60/30s since the contingency would pay for my brakes.

robert
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:39 PM   #99
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no, race pads shouldn't wear evenly front to rear. not something you should consider when building a system.
That seems counter-intuitive. If the caliper is working efficiently it should apply equal pressure on both sides of the pad. ????????
sorry fixed the grammar. the queston was referenced front to rear ware. not both sides of a caliper ware. and yes both sides of a caliper should ware at the same rate. but making the rears last the exact same amount of time as the fronts shouldn't be factored in with a club racing car.

if you have a time attack car that did two laps a weekend. then we could look into running smaller rear pads (and calipers) for less unsprung weight.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:42 PM   #100
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I get those same heat spots every time, too. Eventually it feels like ****. I feel like a moron at this point, a) for continuing to buy Carbotech pads, b) for apparently not being smart enough to make it work while everyone else seems to be. I know they're being bedded properly. If not, they're the most ridiculous pads to bed in ever.

I had this problem on stock brakes, bought the 949 BBK, still have this problem.

robert
buy PFC pads. you'll love them or i'll buy you a set of Padgid or hawk to replace them. put the money where my mouth is.
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