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View Poll Results: I hate re-route
Option 1 19 70.37%
Option 2 8 29.63%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-07-2011, 03:33 AM   #21
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problem is i already ditched my heater core (car is completely gutted)
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:29 AM   #22
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If you've dumped the heater core the 3-port thermostat that Joe posted is the only option for a street car.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:39 PM   #23
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That, or he could just loop the heater core nipple back into the mixing manifold. The diameter of the outlet is fairly small to begin with, so you're not going to compromise radiator flow very much.

Try it that way first. If your operating temps are still too high (which I doubt they will be, assuming a proper reroute) then you can explore the option of using the three-port unit I linked to.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:12 PM   #24
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If you are really into modding a high output engine, why not modify the cylinder head to allow a cylinder by cylinder coolant manifold? It's done on all sorts of engines to good effect. You can wind up with much more control of the cooling including paying more attention to the hot part of the head near the exhaust valves.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
If you are really into modding a high output engine, why not modify the cylinder head to allow a cylinder by cylinder coolant manifold? It's done on all sorts of engines to good effect. You can wind up with much more control of the cooling including paying more attention to the hot part of the head near the exhaust valves.
Because standard reroutes like the M-Tuned unit work perfectly and cost a fraction of what you're suggesting?

Guys, why don't we all just stop ******* around and install Porsche 993 motors? That way there's no coolant to worry about at all.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #26
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Because standard reroutes like the M-Tuned unit work perfectly and cost a fraction of what you're suggesting?

Guys, why don't we all just stop ******* around and install Porsche 993 motors? That way there's no coolant to worry about at all.
Umm…manifolds are DEFINITELY better. And require less modding than what I see some miatas having done to them.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:41 PM   #27
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So your suggestion is to drill holes into the head, machine flat surfaces, create a custom coolant manifold with an integrated thermostat housing and heater core feed, support the weight of that manifold to ensure it doesn't crack, shield it from the heat of the turbo manifold (or the more laughable option of trying to weave it into place around the fuel injectors/fuel rail/intake manifold), and then still perform the rest of the cooling reroute modifications (running a hose from the back to the front with no rub points)?

What the **** requires more modification than that? I like to think that I get to play with some of the hottest Miatas on the planet and I've never seen anything that is more complex than what you described.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:50 PM   #28
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So your suggestion is to drill holes into the head, machine flat surfaces, create a custom coolant manifold with an integrated thermostat housing and heater core feed, support the weight of that manifold to ensure it doesn't crack, shield it from the heat of the turbo manifold (or the more laughable option of trying to weave it into place around the fuel injectors/fuel rail/intake manifold), and then still perform the rest of the cooling reroute modifications (running a hose from the back to the front with no rub points)?

What the **** requires more modification than that? I like to think that I get to play with some of the hottest Miatas on the planet and I've never seen anything that is more complex than what you described.
Geez why all the swearing?

If you take the time to look into it, you'll see what I mean. The miata engine is pedestrian in origin. The "exotic" cooling mods some exclaim as amazing really just get the lump cooling more like the low output FWD cars which are part of it's heritage. Manifolds allow more effective cooling and permit fine tuning the flow to each cylinder. There are many factory HiPo and real race engines that use manifolds if you care to research the matter.

You might want to inform all the fine Engineers around the world that they are wrong.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by sjhyper-marcy View Post
Umm…manifolds are DEFINITELY better. And require less modding than what I see some miatas having done to them.
LOL what? If it aint broke, don't fix it. You go ahead and make your manifold breh. Re-inventing the wheel is never easy, but you are off to a good start. Be sure to include plenty of datalogs when you get it up and running. Let us know how much lower your coolant temps are when you are done.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:04 PM   #30
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Read my post again. I never said anything about the technical aspects of cooling manifolds - I was specifically addressing your ridiculous claim that the installation of a per-cylinder cooling manifold on an engine that was never designed to have one was somehow less complicated than what you've apparently seen on other Miatas. I outlined my process for designing and installing such an item to illustrate the complexity of that task, not to argue that it's not a superior design.

Let me spell it out more clearly for you: I don't think that "all the fine engineers" are wrong for designing a cooling manifold into their original designs - just you for suggesting that it's easier to add one to the Miata head than it is to do a conventional reroute.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:08 PM   #31
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Geez why all the swearing?
Because this is Miata-*******-Turbo-dot-*******-net.

Honestly, I do agree with you that there are some excellent head designs out there which use external cooling manifolds. I don't think anybody is disagreeing that this design has definite merits.

But have you looked at a Miata cylinder head lately? The design of the casting is such that modifying it to use per-cylinder coolant outlets (regardless of whether a manifold is present or not) would be a stupendously difficult and costly undertaking. It'd be hard enough to locate the ports and just attch hoses to them, much less do all of the machinework that Sav highlighted to attach a support a cooland manifold in what very little space there is.

Look, I have to be blunt here- the OP may be a tad misguided, but he's asking for practical advice and you're steering him towards the moon. Rear-thermostat reroutes are easy, affordable, and track-proven effective on the Miata. The problem that you're trying to solve simply does not exist.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #32
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It'd be hard enough to locate the ports and just attch hoses to them, much less do all of the machinework that Sav highlighted to attach a support a cooland manifold in what very little space there is.
I had half a post written about trying to weave that port in through the oil drains, head studs, exhaust ports, and combustion chambers without structurally compromising any of them, but then I remembered that I have things to do today.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:18 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by v01canic View Post
problem is i already ditched my heater core (car is completely gutted)
I did the same. I have a modified No.1 re-route. I turned the inlet water neck to clear the turbo (low mount) and cut the heater hard piping with a saw, then blocked it. The water enters the WP and comes out the back and to the rad. I'm happy with the results.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:33 PM   #34
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So do you have a route for the water to go through while the thermostat is closed other than the turbo?
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:35 PM   #35
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I had half a post written about trying to weave that port in through the oil drains, head studs, exhaust ports, and combustion chambers without structurally compromising any of them, but then I remembered that I have things to do today.
Heh.

What it really comes down to is force vs. need.

Let's say that sjmarcy has a mouse in his home. At night, it has been gnawing holes into his Collector's Edition Amy Winehouse ***** Set.

Now, there are a couple of different methods of recourse here.

One would be to set out some mousetraps. It's a fairly primitive approach, but it's one which is so thoroughly time-tested that attempts to improve upon its design have become a metaphor.

Another option would be to detonate a nuclear weapon in the living room.

Now, the nuclear option certainly brings with it a near 100% probability of success as measured by the likelihood of a first-strike kill, particularly if the mice in sjmarcy's neighborhood have not yet developed early-warning radiological detection equipment. And I don't think anyone will argue that a nuclear weapon isn't far more technologically advanced than a piece of wood with a spring attached. When great nations need to assure one another of the certainty of instantaneous retaliatory annihilation, they don't use pieces of wood with springs attached.

But there are some drawbacks as well. For starters, nuclear weapons are expensive and difficult to transport across international lines. And despite ongoing advancement in plutonium refining techniques, fabricating a high-yield thermonuclear warhead in the home requires certain specialized shop tools which are beyond the reach of most hobbyists.

And, of course, it's just not necessary. Mousetraps have a long and proven record at providing successful performance in the trapping of mice, generally without also wiping out every other living thing within a 10 mile radius.

So, for the purposes of catching a mouse in the home, most people rely upon mousetraps. And for keeping engine temperatures in check for a street-driven car in the desert, nuclear weapons are not required.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:32 PM   #36
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WTF ^^^^^ Rofl
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:27 PM   #37
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I want to have Joe's babies.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:13 PM   #38
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Definitely option 2 for me. I daily drive my car in South FL with AC, +300hp, stock radiator, and water temperatures just sit ~7 degrees above my thermostat temp. Even with repeated hard pulls I can't break 200 degree temps. (Obviously it would be different on a track, but even the stock radiator has easily handled what I can throw at it.)

For option 1 you have to decide between a. thermostat and no coolant flow until warm or b. no thermostat and having trouble getting up to operating temp.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:12 AM   #39
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That was too damn funny Joe, The idea of radioactive amy winehouse ****** raining down from sjmarcy's house just keeps playing through my head as a funny gif, But I can't make one. If this is miata-*******-turbo-dot-*******-net we are losing our touch. I am calling all mods to make his SN sjhyper-marcy, or just SJhyper.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:39 AM   #40
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Quote:
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So do you have a route for the water to go through while the thermostat is closed other than the turbo?
What thermostat??
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