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View Poll Results: I hate re-route
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
What thermostat??
The one that blocks the flow to the radiator when it reads sub 180 temps.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:08 AM   #42
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The one that blocks the flow to the radiator when it reads sub 180 temps.
Sarcasm brah... I don't haz one, don't really need one is SF
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:35 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by buffon01 View Post
Sarcasm brah... I don't haz one, don't really need one is SF
Granted, it's been a while since I lived in FL, and I was further up the coast where the temps are a bit cooler and the average person has finished Jr. High school, but I don't recall that the daytime temperature was anywhere near 180F, even in the summertime.

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That was too damn funny Joe, The idea of radioactive amy winehouse ****** raining down from sjmarcy's house just keeps playing through my head as a funny gif, But I can't make one.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
If you want the absolute best possible design, you need a bypass-style thermostat. It's a Y-valve, which directs water out to one port when cold, and out to a different port when hot. Plumb the "cold" port to the water pump inlet, and the "hot" port to the upper radiator hose.

Stant 13578 Thermostat


Just bought this. Going to try this and see how it goes.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:38 AM   #45
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Bravo, Joe.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:34 PM   #46
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Why are you guys so wrapped up about water flow and don't address the air flow problem created from the installation of the intercooler.

The reason for the over heating is from the design of our front end and the placement we all choose for our intercoolers. We all end up with a half of a radiator.

If we could cut our car in half we could see that the intercooler prevents air reaching the upper half of the radiator and the air provided to the lower half is preheated by the intercooler.

Take a look at the picture. The air that enters the intercooler can only exit into the the lower portion of the condensor or radiator. For air to reach the upper portion of the radiator it must squeze between the upper edge of the intercooler and the front bumper support. Depending on the size of your intercooler of course. My FM only allows about 1/2 inch.

So allowing air from somewhere to feed the upper portion of the radiator would effectively double the cooling ability of the radiator.

My solution was to feed air from the fog light openings to the opening just to each side of my intercooler. Since I made this change I have not had any overheat problems. A month ago I went to Carolina Motorsport Park for a HPDE. I am running a 3071R at 12PSI and make 265 on a mustang dyno (what ever that truly is) and ran hard all weekend and didnt see the temp budge from normal. I do have the FM radiator but have the stock fans and I think one is dieing. I do run water wetter and a 180 degree thermostat but everything else is factory mazda.

Try providing some air up there and see what happens.

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Old 08-30-2011, 12:01 AM   #47
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It's known Mazda didn't design the cooling system to allow for good flow to the rear of the engine.

Not saying what you have said isn't true, but there is no denying the reroutes work. And for the $79 I'm going to spend doing it, with almost no labor involved, why not? Not much trouble here.

Why not do both?

We are wrapped up about it in this thread because it's a coolant reroute thread. Now if you were in a radiator air flow thread, and we were talking about coolant reroutes you might have a valid point.
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:32 AM   #48
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So, someone tell me why I'm a moron for considering this and everything that is wrong with the idea.

Move tstat to back of head, proceed to reroute as normal, put the heater outlet post-tstat with the heater inlet being pre-tstat.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:55 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
The miata engine is pedestrian in origin.
Mazda didn't think so:



Is quoting a banned member like arguing with a dead man?



Joe:

Your post is ******* win. I now, after 29 yrs of walking the face of this planet, FINALLY know how to answer when someone asks: "If you could have lunch with any 3 people, living or dead, who would they be?", and I'd even call you with the GPS coordinates to the cafe before ringing up Sagan and Hawking.



OP:

The simplest, cheapest, effective reroute I found is detailed somewhat here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....1&postcount=53

Someone else had a list of all the parts but I can't find it at the moment. You simply switch the two housings. Then run one heater line to the back if you're keeping the heater core, or simply drop it down to a barb on the mixing manifold for a heater core delete and keep circulation. The metal pipe can be found at HomeDepot and they make ones with a 90* bend in the end of them so that the rear hose is just a straight shot instead of the funky hose I used.

It can also be cleaned up better than what those old pics show.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The simplest, cheapest, effective reroute I found is detailed somewhat here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....1&postcount=53

Someone else had a list of all the parts but I can't find it at the moment. You simply switch the two housings. Then run one heater line to the back if you're keeping the heater core, or simply drop it down to a barb on the mixing manifold for a heater core delete and keep circulation. The metal pipe can be found at HomeDepot and they make ones with a 90* bend in the end of them so that the rear hose is just a straight shot instead of the funky hose I used.

It can also be cleaned up better than what those old pics show.
So pull off the stock housing from the front, pull off the stock housing in the rear, swap them (bolt on?). The thermostat goes with the front housing in the rear. (falls in place?).

Buy the kia neck to radiator hose per this thread. https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-saved-posts-8/reroute-hose%3B-kia-neck-radiator-no-hard-line-needed-46698/
Then buy a hose to run the heater hose back and extend the sensor to the front. Anything else?
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:50 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
So, someone tell me why I'm a moron
You're a moron because the NGK AFX display isn't quite as pretty as the Innovate XD-16 and yet you still chose to mount one in your car.

Just kidding.


Quote:
Move tstat to back of head, proceed to reroute as normal, put the heater outlet post-tstat with the heater inlet being pre-tstat.
That would certainly work in terms of getting flow through the heater core. The problem in my mind is that if you do precisely what has been described, you'd be returning all of the heater core's output directly into the upper radiator hose, and this effectively bypasses the thermostat.

If you want the engine to warm up properly, you need to return the "bypass" water (whether a heater core is involved or not) back to the water pump inlet when the main thermostat is closed. You can "hard-wire" it this way, as is the stock configuration of both the Miata and 323 cooling systems (along with just about every other car out there), or you can use some kind of switchable diverter, such as a bypass thermostat.




Quote:
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Joe:

Your post is ******* win. I now, after 29 yrs of walking the face of this planet, FINALLY know how to answer when someone asks: "If you could have lunch with any 3 people, living or dead, who would they be?", and I'd even call you with the GPS coordinates to the cafe before ringing up Sagan and Hawking.
Hehe. Every now and then, someone comes up with an idea so hairbrained that it merits a clever retort. I can't just write that stuff on demand, it takes an act of genuine stupidity to really get the creative juices flowing.

I can't take credit. I just write what the muse inspires.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:50 PM   #52
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can we get one of these coolant re-route threads in the FAQ to save ourselves from more threads like this? If asked, ill even be more than happy to draw out other coolant layouts using the diagram lol.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:39 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
You simply switch the two housings.
Wait wait wait what happens to the rear of the motor until the thermostat opens?
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You're a moron because the NGK AFX display isn't quite as pretty as the Innovate XD-16 and yet you still chose to mount one in your car.

Just kidding.
I spent a great deal of time going between Innovate products, NGK's product, and the 14 point 7 line. I decided on the NGK because the NTK sensor was the best in the price range, the AFX was mounted where no one would see it (Glovebox), and the wiring was infinitely easier to the Innovate line. Among other things, I haven't had a single problem with grounding or of getting the gauge to match the MS.

Quote:
That would certainly work in terms of getting flow through the heater core. The problem in my mind is that if you do precisely what has been described, you'd be returning all of the heater core's output directly into the upper radiator hose, and this effectively bypasses the thermostat.

If you want the engine to warm up properly, you need to return the "bypass" water (whether a heater core is involved or not) back to the water pump inlet when the main thermostat is closed. You can "hard-wire" it this way, as is the stock configuration of both the Miata and 323 cooling systems (along with just about every other car out there), or you can use some kind of switchable diverter, such as a bypass thermostat.
Argh. The problem I'm running into is I'm trying to eliminate the entire gorramn pipe and associated hose apparatus running near the exhaust.

I planned to route the cursed water plug's output into the heater core, then drop it directly back into the engine that way thus eliminating both the cursed water plug and getting rid of the damned pipe at the same time - I'll have to think on it. While I have no logical reason to hate the heater pipe and associated lines, they irritate me endlessly when I'm trying to work underneath the car and having to fight with the heater hoses to work on various turbo bits is seriously irritating to me as well.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:16 PM   #55
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Joe, is this what you are talking about?

Blue line to W/P only is active when >180 degrees.

After tstat "opens" the line to w/p is not used and only the one to the radiator is used.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:31 PM   #56
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Edit: learned to read.

Last edited by Larimer; 08-31-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Wait wait wait what happens to the rear of the motor until the thermostat opens?
There is less flow there as heater core inlet and outlet are now at the front. It's really inconsequential while warming up as long as there is circulation. The inlet is still at the mixing manifold on the lower block, and water still goes up to the head before going out the front. As the thermostat gradually opens there will be flow as it will take the path of least resistance.

This re-route involves no spacer, and no Kia water neck. One specific Gates hose (shown in picture), one chrome sink pipe, and one straight section of hose. Besides that there is the longer heater core line, and extending the ECU's temp sensor wiring to it's new home on the front of the block (easier to get to now if that connection is ever lost...keeping you in ridiculous warm-up enrichments).
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Old 08-31-2011, 01:19 AM   #58
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So is there any performance/reliability/overheating dangers to that reroute?
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:44 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
So is there any performance/reliability/overheating dangers to that reroute?
I saw my average coolant temps go down ~15* through 20K boosted miles and never had a single leak, rubbing issue, or overheat. And I don't drive easy.

I even sold my $500 PWR and later saw temps remain the same on an aluminum stock autotragic radiator.

Profit.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:43 PM   #60
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Did some more research on my particular car. I've got an Escort GT engine with 2 water exits on the back of the head.

Miata:


Escort GT:


So it appears that that fitting flows pre-tstat, and is how I set up my car. I found a hose at Autozone that had a 180 degree bend near the end of it, ran it back towards the driver's side, and just put a barbed fitting (male on both sides) in between the stock heater hose and it. Just another reference for guys with EGT swaps in their cars.

Last edited by Larimer; 09-02-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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