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Old 07-31-2013, 03:24 PM   #341
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it;s funny how APR wings are looking more and more simplistic, but apparently being more and more effective.
Yup. A lot of CFD time into the new foils by a local aerodynamicist. They're optimized for the relatively low speeds of club racers and time attack. The 75-140mph range as opposed to the COT that is optimized for 160-205mph. The design emphasis was getting the lowest possible drag at the target -lift range. The older 3D GTC designs had respectable L/D ratios but were more sensitive to placement as they worked best when parked behind an obstruction. The 2D OTOH, works best when it's as close to free stream as possible. As many sanctioning bodies allow the foils to be placed high enough, the decision was made to start with a clean sheet for the 250. Thus, it's probably the only motorsports foil specifically designed for mid speeds on production cars. Every other foil out there is either an ancient 70's era pre-CFD design for aerospace/aircraft or something like the COT foil for going 200mph.

The first short run of lower cost FRP GT-250's we did sold out instantly. We'll do another run when we have the frame rail through-trunk mounts sorted. I'm trying to get one of the prototype dual element set ups to run at NASA nationals in September. As mentioned in the other thread, the goal would be to get a single element FRP setup with giant frame rail mounts to market for under $1300, about the same cost as the production CFRP foil with little universal trunk mounts.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:28 PM   #342
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Thus, it's probably the only motorsports foil specifically designed for mid speeds on production cars. Every other foil out there is either an ancient 70's era pre-CFD design for aerospace/aircraft or something like the COT foil for going 200mph.
You missed the 3rd options of wings designed in CFD by smaller companies to go any speed to want but cost 3 to 6 grand.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:35 PM   #343
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Unfortunately, no. It's just another semi-pornographic COT wing shot that I took today. The rest of the car matches - 525 hp LS3, 275 Hoosiers on 15x10 6ULs, etc. The front splitter and wheel spats aren't done yet, BTW.

Looking forward to hearing more about the dual element setup you're working on. I've got some fun parts coming for my own car that would be illegal in most race classes - more when I get them implemented.


Oh mannnnnnn that thing is looking MEAN!!!
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:54 AM   #344
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The first short run of lower cost FRP GT-250's we did sold out instantly. We'll do another run when we have the frame rail through-trunk mounts sorted. I'm trying to get one of the prototype dual element set ups to run at NASA nationals in September. As mentioned in the other thread, the goal would be to get a single element FRP setup with giant frame rail mounts to market for under $1300, about the same cost as the production CFRP foil with little universal trunk mounts.
Hey Emilio where is the second element for sale at? I know you have the APR-250 on your site. does the new wing end plates come with the second element kit?
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #345
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Hey Emilio where is the second element for sale at? I know you have the APR-250 on your site. does the new wing end plates come with the second element kit?
Not for sale. That's the one and only proto. Probably 3-5 months away from being available to the public.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:14 AM   #346
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Agreed - mostly. There's an Exocet builder in Florida who claims to have purchased a half dozen of them at $125-250 each over the past few months on eBay and the like. I have some suspicions about the legitimacy of these claims, but I believe there are still a few lurking deals on Craigslist in the roundy-round regions.

I've got a show wing here at the shop. It's quite a bit different from the race ones, but I'm thinking it could be upgraded with some two-part foam and a couple of spars. Once I have a few things worked out, I'll post details.
Is the show car COT wing the same as the one y'all are running.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:48 AM   #347
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Is the show car COT wing the same as the one y'all are running.
No.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #348
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FYI, we've had a few requests for these mounts lately. So we're running another group buy on them. I know there are two orders in already, they just aren't listed on the site yet.

Flyin' Miata : Group buy center

I haven't made any progress on turning the show car wings into functional ones, but I've got ideas. Soon.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:39 AM   #349
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Not exactly the update to this topic I was hoping to see Keith!

Edit: Nevermind!

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...ng-test-74913/
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:16 AM   #350
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Agreed - mostly. There's an Exocet builder in Florida who claims to have purchased a half dozen of them at $125-250 each over the past few months on eBay and the like. I have some suspicions about the legitimacy of these claims, but I believe there are still a few lurking deals on Craigslist in the roundy-round regions.

I've got a show wing here at the shop. It's quite a bit different from the race ones, but I'm thinking it could be upgraded with some two-part foam and a couple of spars. Once I have a few things worked out, I'll post details.
I challenged that Florida Exocet builder to find me a similar deal, and that's how we got two real CoT wings for $440.

He's been in Saudi Arabia, else I'd have him funnel them all to me for resale.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:16 PM   #351
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FYI, we've had a few requests for these mounts lately. So we're running another group buy on them. I know there are two orders in already, they just aren't listed on the site yet.

Flyin' Miata : Group buy center

I haven't made any progress on turning the show car wings into functional ones, but I've got ideas. Soon.
This group buy finishes tomorrow. We've got 6 people now, and I just got the okay from the manufacturer to do a smaller production run so it'll go through. It's unlikely we'll do another run of these, so if you want a set sign up! FYI.

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-30-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:58 PM   #352
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Finally finished some mounts for mine that aren't loose butthole. They look huge, but the wing is only 2" above the roof currently. I'll probably cut them down 2-3" over the winter.



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Old 09-30-2013, 11:00 PM   #353
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Great job, but that's got to put a massive moment on the lower mount where it meets the trunk lip. Hope you beefed that part of the Miata up a lot.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:11 PM   #354
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The lower mount that comes through the trunk lid is a piece of ~1"x3" angle that bolts to the trunk rain rail, and it attaches right on top of a reinforcement welded in from the factory. It's already a really sturdy spot, but I have a large fender washer on the front bolt that sees the pulling forces.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:38 AM   #355
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Finally finished some mounts for mine that aren't loose butthole. They look huge, but the wing is only 2" above the roof currently. I'll probably cut them down 2-3" over the winter.



Does those mounts make the wing move from side to side at speed quite abit?
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:40 AM   #356
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Nope, not that I can tell. When the car is sitting still, you can shake the hell out of the wing and the sidewalls of the tires move more than the wing mounts.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #357
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How did you find the balance with no splitter? Still good? If so, that could give me back a few points for my upcoming build.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #358
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The EP airdam with undertray back to the subframe seems to get rid of quite a bit of lift. I'm running the wing at pretty close to 0, but I took it off for the last session of the weekend and the car was significantly slower and harder to drive. The undertray is also adjustable for height behind the airdam, but I haven't had time to play with that yet.

Fwiw, my top speeds at Putnam park were higher with the wing. A splitter would be nice so that I could crank in some more wing and have more overall downforce, but the fact that I'm running the wing with so little angle isn't really a bad thing with 130hp.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:23 PM   #359
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The EP airdam with undertray back to the subframe seems to get rid of quite a bit of lift. I'm running the wing at pretty close to 0, but I took it off for the last session of the weekend and the car was significantly slower and harder to drive. The undertray is also adjustable for height behind the airdam, but I haven't had time to play with that yet.

Fwiw, my top speeds at Putnam park were higher with the wing. A splitter would be nice so that I could crank in some more wing and have more overall downforce, but the fact that I'm running the wing with so little angle isn't really a bad thing with 130hp.
Cool beans.

Same things we found. Properly configured EP dam makes net downforce. Enough to distort a pretty stout piece of plywood and bend mounting points at 135mph on Crusher.

Also found that a properly set up high mount 2D will have no net increase in overall drag from a stock trunk lid and tail. Not surprised you actually found a gain with the 2D. My data had about 1.5mph of "noise" so I called it a wash. I did have data points indicated a slight gain in top speed with the 2D but I couldn't repeat the same percentage gain when I did a control the second time.

This stuff is great for the Miata track guy that doesn't have a lot of power to play with. Where we found the big gains in drag was with the splitter and cables hanging off the nose.
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:49 PM   #360
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Update!

We had one person bail on their promise to buy a set of these mounts. So there's one set left for an NB. I don't think we'll be doing another run, so if you want a set here's your chance. Once this set is gone, they're gone.

No, they won't fit an NA. The angles are wrong.

Flyin' Miata : Body : Body parts : COT wing mounts
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