My only comment is to say that the mouth opening of the Miata is larger than needed. Thus the ducting does not need to fill the entire thing, only make sure that the air that is pushed into your duct opening all goes through the radiator.

I did re-route, ducting and oil cooler at the same time, so I don't have a feel for which did which, only that my coolant temps are now in check, and the AIT's have not gotten worse. Now if I ever get my oil temp gauge wired, I'll know if I'm over-cooling it.

Well, my RX-8's dipstick *IS* pretty idiot proof, and it can be argued that I am an idiot for owning that car, so...

My Miata dipstick follows the amount of oil I add pretty closely, so I'm sure it's close enough. Halfway between min and max with an eye kept on it seems to be the ticket in my case.

It is not what it used to be. They have greatly reduced or removed many of the additives that made its a good budget "performance" oil over the years. This was done for diesel emissions reasons.

So what is the current golden standard on oil just any race specific oil?

Depends upon who you ask. I like the additive package and film strength of Shaeffer's offerings but I know there are plenty of boutique oils and new formulas from established players that didn't exist 10 years ago. Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Amsoil, Redline, Valvoline, et al have "ideal" race formulas if you just go by the marketing. You really have to look at the data sheet to decide for yourself or you're really just taking somebody's word for it.

I run amsoil in the motorcycle and sleds might as well keep all race motors consistent haha

Rotella T6. It's $22/gallon on sale.
If you're actually running the engine oil hot enough to cause serious degradation (>~150*C sustained), then better cooling is required and any boutique oil is just buying a tiny bit more time before BOOM. People spend way too much effort looking for "what is the best." None of us are running a fully billet 1500hp engine; we don't demand that much from our lubrication system. Keep track of pressure and temp and get an analysis to understand how you engine is wearing and will dictate what is best for you: What is the measured viscosity? Is the oil breaking down from heat? Do I need to change it more or less often? What amount of metal and what types are present? FYI our NSX GT3 runs off the shelf Mobil 1 and they change and analyze the engine oil after every session. It's good enough for a $500k race car and will last an entire 24 hours. You don't need some uber exotic oil, but you should start conservative until you understand what your setup requires; then set it and forget it.

That's more along the lines of all the research I've done. I alays had the thought that if it's good enough for my kx250f that saw 12k almost constantly it would be good to 7k rpm. Clean cool oil are the biggest factors is what I have always been told with hydraulic pumps

Would bang

Pretty much this.

I used my RX-8 as a torture test bed for different oils and utilized Blackstone reports to tell me which brands performed better (which amounts to longer), what weight to use, and at what intervals to change the oil. I found that ANY quality synthetic could withstand the brutal shear forces of a Renesis engine for at least 8 track hours. Three notable performers were Mobil 1 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum 0W40, and Rotella T6 5W40 (old formula), which held their viscosity longer than I was comfortable running them (at least 12 track hours), and provided adequate lubrication to keep wear metals very low. Based on my results, I ran Rotella T6 for a couple of years, due to its low price: $16 for 5 quarts on sale. When I tired of the rotary stench and put a race cat on the car, I switched to Mobil 1, due to its ubiquity.

Having said that, Valvoline Synpower, Quaker State synthetic, and several other popular brands performed very well, and I would not hesitate to run them for up to 8 track hours. We are lucky to live in the amber age of quality synthetic oils with excellent additive packages.

If an oil will stand up to rotary abuse, it will certainly hold up in a BP engine--even with reasonable F/I. Start with a quality oil, change it at a conservative interval, and send a sample for analysis. Adjust your interval from there and don't worry about it.

For example, when I bought my Miata a little over a year ago, I had a spare jug of Valvoline Synpower 5W30 sitting on the shelf in my garage. I poured it in, ran the car for 8 track hours, and sent a sample to Blackstone. Results were perfectly fine. I now run Mobil 1 0W40 just to keep things consistent between the 2 cars.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...999152eb60.png

My original unopened engine with about 170k miles and like 200+ hours of track use has been on Rotella T6 since I got it.

Rodney, is one of those you?

Just a guess, but I would guess it's Mike.

Oil heating cooling
 

So I'm a fan of the Laminova heat exchangers, but the plumbing on my SE (MSM) doesn't really lend itself to using the radiator outlet. Maybe when I put the built engine in, but that is not now.

I am now considering a fan boosted Setrab in the rhs wheel well, in front of the tyre. I don't want to use the foglight hole because brake cooling. Also, I want to be able to modulate the cooling to even out oil temperature.

My thinking is that a cooler with a fan sitting in that space will not cool much (unducted) until the fan comes on, facilitating faster warm up. Fan on, and cooling happens.

I would like to use a pwm controller to modulate the fan according to temperature, to even out the temperature and ease the load on the alternator. I can't see anyone here who has done that - am I wrong?

I can use the ECU to do this, or I can use an external controller (Mocal sell one). Is one better than the other?

Will the ots thermostats do the same job of modulation, or are they on/off switches (so to speak)?

Appreciate any comments

Thanks!

There is no reason that your idea wont work and your logic is sound. For ducting you can pick up air in front of the radiator in the high pressure area assuming you are ducted properly there already.

PWM is totally unnecessary IMO. Oil has a broad range of acceptable temps, so I would just do a simple on/off channel. You'll save a lot of headaches that way (PWM to a fan would require either a fan controller or a solid state relay).

I am certainly not properly ducted there yet, that is in train though. My dilemma is that I don't want to cool until the oil warms up, so ducting (ie ducting out of a well sealed inlet) may impede that process. OTOH, just driving my car around the coolant seems to warm up a lot quicker than the racecar, or my previous (NA) street cars. I am wondering if warming the oil in a turbo car is not the 'problem' I think it is (was).

Point taken Sav.

The RPW - Mocal pump controller referred to in my post, for the record. I just noticed that it seems to be grouped under oil pumps, FWTW.

Oil Cooler - location tested
 

I had fitted my oil cooler in the front right hand corner, behind the fog light opening. This is the result of relatively light contact with a tyre barrier - I had to replace the guard, but the bumper and headlight are still serviceable. The oil cooler was mounted with aluminium brackets which tore off with the impact, and sent the cooler under the front wheel.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/...8a2ee1b3_c.jpg

I still won my class for the event I was competing in, and made it to the top 5 street registered cars at the event, but I had to sit out the last two runs as a result of the oil cooler damage. I will be re-thinking my oil cooler location.

Nylon hoses is asking for trouble.

*Hoses that abrade when rubbed against metal is asking for trouble

Better? I mean, you can literally see the hose cover coming apart (fuzzy) in the picture, and that's in free air.

I take it you are unaware of the stainless steel reinforced CPE hose inside the braided jacket?

I don't like steel braided exterior hoses because of their propensity to saw through everything they contact. The cloth is friendlier to other components. OEMs typically use rubber sheathed exteriors on their high pressure lines, just like hydraulic machinery manufacturers. Automobile applications are always very low pressure, though.

The steel braid is armoring. I'd use it in places where impact with rocks/debris is expected (like a wheel well or long runs along the bottom of the chassis), but I think you are better off running your critical lines in more protected areas if you can.

If only there were a steel inner liner underneath the nylon layer to protect against such a thing.

If only.

I think it's probably easier to rethink running into shit with the front of the car :)

This might just be too easy of a solution though.

Yeah, if only. Except there isn't. I'm very familiar with the line in question.

That line looks like Startlite, which has no steel.

On the other hand, the fuzziness doesn't really mean a whole lot, since it has easy-to-fuzz Nomex mixed in. It did survive being run over by a car.

I mean, so would a vacuum line.

Oil Cooler Stud Thread Sizes?
 

I have an application for this oil warmer/cooler that is not in a miata, but rather a small diesel engine. The oil filter "Stud" on that engine is 20x1.5mm and it seems most of these coolers adapt to a 3/4-16 thread. The oil filter threads themselves don't matter much to me because I can get a different filter.

Does anyone know what the thread size is on these that goes in to the block and what the thread size is on the coupler that screws in to the oil cooler/warmer housing? This particular cooler/warmer is one of the few that would fit in the allotted space I have.

I did do a search of this thread and didn't find anything relating to the thread size unless it was written out strangely.

Ultimately, i am looking to adapt to a block that has a 20x1.5mm female thread.

Thanks in advance for any information!

I'm looking for a cooler similar to what is on the miata. A sandwich type of cooler, that I can run coolant through. Not a oil block that redirects the oil to an air cooler or other. I need something small and contained such as the cooler that comes on the miata 1.8L. I just don't know what the stud threads on are these and that go in to the block. I have not been able to find any mention of this or documentation on it either.

If you are asking what the Miata oil filter thread size is, it's M20x1.5. The Miata block is tapped M20x1.5 and accepts a fully-threaded hollow 'stud'. The 'oil warmer' is then secured with a nut. The oil filter screws directly onto the stud.

This is exactly the information I was looking for. Thanks!

It will essentially cool the oil a little bit as well. If the oil is 250F and the coolant is 160F on the return from the radiator then it will definitely cool it once it is warmed up. Just the same as it warms it during the startup/warmup period.

It is on a little 20HP diesel motor. A little cooling will go a long ways, especially when there was not engine oil cooler from the factory.

Yes, it is a oil temperature moderator. It warms and cools, just like your breath.

Are these coolers found in 98-05 gen with the 1.8L? This is what I've seen from searching, but a confirmation would definitely save me a bit of time at the yard.

Waste of time in this application. Engine oil will essentially stay at block temperature unless you heat it up in the engine bearings with a bunch of RPM. Diesel tractors don't have a bunch of RPM. I wouldn't even bother on a street car, let alone a tractor.

Have you actually measured your oil temperature?

Yes, I have measure it. It is about 230 when you shoot the oil filter or pan with an IR gun. It isn't to heat up the oil, it is to help keep it a little cooler under load. It'll run at full throttle for an hour or so at a time regardless of ambient temperature. Full RPM is 3500.

It isn't to heat the oil, it is to help keep it a little cooler under full load. I could careless about the warming capabilities of the unit when it is cold. I have a block heater for that if I so choose to warm everything up before starting it. I don't see how it wouldn't help with 160F coolant running through the "warmer" when the oil is 230F or so (give or take 10)

It helps and and it is a good idea. It will make the engine last longer and it will moderate the temperature of the engine oil.

Thanks! That was my thought exactly. I'm trying to find some coolant diagrams on the proper way to pipe one of these in. The coolant system on my machine is extremely simple. Thermostat --> coolant fill reservoir --> radiator --> cylinder head / engine block --> waterpump --> thermo housing (back to beginning). There is no built in bypass or other coolant hoses for any accessories etc....

... and just as effective. Though maybe if we are talking 20hp it might actually work.

... (ducks for cover)

230F oil temperature is perfect. But, suit yourself. Add the complexity and potential leaks . . . to a tractor.

Complexity? It is 2 hoses, a T at the thermo coolant temp bung, and a T back in to the coolant prior to the pump. That's quite simple. There are almost identical engines with oil coolers in designed for them that are nearly identical to this one. They won't work because of the configuration this engine is setup for/in, so I needed a cooler that is slightly different.

Regardless, I'm headed to the yard today to go get one of these and I'll post back and let those know how effective it is (or not). I expect it to work just fine though and will serve as a dual purpose to help keep temps down closer to block temperature and help warm it up faster and more thoroughly as well, which could be equally as important for longevity.

Ok, here we go.
Using an IR thermometer does not provide an accurate measurement of oil temperature for the same reasons you don't use one to gauge tire temps.

A block heater is a coolant heater. Oil and coolant aren't linked unless there is a, wait for it, oil warmer. Oil will take forever to warm up from normal driving, without an oil warmer, in cold weather.

You don't understand heat transfer. Heat transfer approaches zero as you approach temperature equilibrium. The only time any significant heat transfer is occurring is when your coolant is 80*C and your oil is 20*C. When you're beating on it, and TW is 105C and Toil is 120C, there is nothing beneficial happening. In this situation the only heat transfer occurring is working against you. Your water temp is increasing and your oil temp is just peachy with plenty of margin. Result is power down due to further ignition retard for knocking due to increasing TW.

IR gun obviously doesn't tell me exactly what's going on, but if it read 180* then I wouldn't have ended up here.

A block heater will heat the water, the block, and in turn the oil.

You contradict yourself. If the water temp is increasing because it is going through the oil cooler/warmer then you have to pulling heat out of the oil otherwise it would not do that. Just saying. Please don't make me bust out the thermodynamics book that's sitting on my shelf.

I'm not looking to make the oil 50F cooler, but something to help keep it down a little and that's all. If I wanted something more drastic then I'd get a more serious oil cooler. In fact, John Deere actually uses this exact same setup in an almost identical engine in a larger tractor.

Anyways, I'm not here to argue anymore. I have already sourced the cooler (today) and will be installing it. Thanks for all of those that helped and provided constructive criticism. I may be back to let you all know how it worked, but I won't be back on the forum until then. No use flaming on as I won't see it. Thanks again everyone, you've been extremely helpful.

Nothing wrong with oil/water. It can overwhelm a marginal water cooling system though.

has anyone successfully mounted a series 6 25 row in the front right wheel well? if so I would love to see a picture.

I would too, thinking the same setup.

I mounted the "square" one behind the MSM's foglight opening: Setrab Oil Cooler behind foglight

I doubt whether a larger one will fit - I tried and chose the smaller "square" Setrab oil cooler because it did fit.
Warnng: "TheAustralian" on this site mounted his in a similar manner to mine and damaged it in an off-track incident, tearing it from the mount - somehow the fittings all remained intact/connected which was pretty impressive

That's some pretty cool fab work! Have you ever ran into problems with the sway-bar pinching the nylon lines though?

No issues yet - I did make some additional changes that are documented further on in the thread.

"TheAustralian" took some of my ideas and came up with what I think is a better oil line routing see Post#341 in this thread.

I started mocking up the oil cooler today in my NB2, replaced the fog light cover with this to get some air flow:

Attachment 236767

But I don't know if the oil cooler I bought is too big. Do you think I can make it fit? I am also gathering parts for a turbo and I'm worried the piping might interfere:

Attachment 236768

Attachment 236769

Your intercooler plumbing will take up a lot of real estate and there aren't too many options routing the coldside so figure that out first before going too far with the oil cooler install since that'll dictate what will and wont fit.

Its also bad practice to mount a cooler with the ports on the bottom, though it will still work in a degraded capacity.

I mounted my cooler in the same location with the hoses off the bottom. The topic of the inlet location came up in my build thread and it was pointed out that the oil is thick enough to push the air out. I verified this with an IR heat gun, temps were even across the core.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...18c6febd11.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...66b65b2913.jpg