so I spent the day getting my ass beat by a car with AFCO and street rubber - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 02-21-2010, 09:48 PM   #1
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Default so I spent the day getting my *** beat by a car with AFCO and street rubber

Apparently I should have spent 1/10th as much time tuning suspension as I did making the power plant work. Colin-MX5 can drive, and has lots of grip.

I'm lowering the car 1-1.5", and adding 2* of camber all the way around to get something like this:

2.75 front camber
2.5 rear camber
0 toe front
1/16" rear tow
4" front height
4.25" back height
This advice came from Emilio.

My *** was beaten like a bitch on the grip. I got behind Colin after he ran me down, followed his line to follow the magic, and there is no doubt, I can't stay on the pavement on his line at his speed, and he's on street rubber while I'm on NT-01. Shame, it is mine.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:55 PM   #2
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Whats he running for rubber?
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:58 PM   #3
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Whats he running for rubber?
rs-3 on 8's,. I have NT-01 on 9. I only have 1.5* of camber all the way around because my car is so high...that's about to change. I followed him very closely...def more grip. I felt like a Viper ------...running on the straight, although I was braking much deeper, he ate my *** up mid corner and on exit.
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:07 PM   #4
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rs3s are fast. I'm not exactly a track expert, but for what it's worth I was between 1-2s of my nt01 on 9s time at Infineon with my rs3s on 8s.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:06 PM   #5
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What suspension do you have anyways? Maybe its time to drop the dime on xida-s or the like?
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:07 PM   #6
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Did he possibly have some more extensive weight reduction?
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:08 PM   #7
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What suspension do you have anyways? Maybe its time to drop the dime on xida-s or the like?
I have tein flex with 590/360 springs.

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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Did he possibly have some more extensive weight reduction?
he did not, but I had a passenger.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:13 PM   #8
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Well Im sure the passenger had a fairly noticeable effect.

Do you have a tire pyrometer?
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I have tein flex with 590/360 springs.


he did not, but I had a passenger.
590's are too weak imo. I'm on 750/350 and my previous springs were 550/450

I think I would rather have 800/400 as the current rears arent quite enough and the front is tight but could use alittle more. My buddy runs 1000lbs in the front and loves them.

What swaybar you using?

1/16th rear toe is that in or out?? (in I hope)
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
rs-3 on 8's,. I have NT-01 on 9. I only have 1.5* of camber all the way around because my car is so high...that's about to change. I followed him very closely...def more grip. I felt like a Viper ------...running on the straight, although I was braking much deeper, he ate my *** up mid corner and on exit.
Not sure why you can't get more neg camber than that... my car is at least as high as yours and I can get -2 degrees in the rear with more left. For the front I made offset upper bushings and currently run -2.3 and could get more. A set of ISC bushings will take care of your camber issues and not screw with street driving. If it's only seeing track time, lowering may be the better option (assuming that gets you enough camber).
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:29 AM   #11
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Thanks for the props Hustler. I really had fun chasing you.

I dont have too much in the form of weight reduction. I pulled PS, AC, airbags, radio/speakers (left the bose amp cause its hard to get to), and swaped to cobra imola seats. still had a full dash/console and carpets.

As mentioned I have a pretty basic setup. 750/450 FM AFCO's, 1.125" RB front bar, 5/8 FM rear bar. not sure exactly what my alignment numbers are as i have played with the ride height since my last alignment, but it should be close to:

Camber : 2.7 f / 3 r
Caster: 6*
Toe: 0

Ride height is ~11.5/11.75. I do want some more front camber next time i go back.

225/45/15 Hankook RS3's on 15x8 6ULs

I'm trying to figure out whether to run the TXMC in mod or unlimited, so i've beed running the past few events in mod trim (13 pts). I really want to buy a wing and build a splitter to get to the upper end of mod, but money is tight for a while.

Also other than R-package tie rod ends, is there any other way to reduce bumpsteer on an NB? I was getting my *** kicked by the bumps out there. If my only recourse is to hit the gym, I guess that isnt too bad of an option.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:38 AM   #12
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Man you are running a lot of caster at 6* with no PS and good size tires so I'll bet the steering is a handful. Several here without PS including me run caster at more like 4-5*. IIRC dropping caster can start to eat into the max available negative camber, but it will lighten up your steering tremendously.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:44 AM   #13
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Actually adding caster eats into your available camber range.

The steering feel is phenominal and regular tracks like TWS, but add the "bumps" or mogals as i refer to them, and it becomes a workout.

I did the FM style depower w/ plugs from miataroadster and couldnt be happier...till the mogals appeared. thankfully I do not run HHR often, that was my first day at actual speed. I had done a few parade laps before.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I have tein flex with 590/360 springs.

And here I am rocking 550/300 on the street...
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by tann3r View Post
Actually adding caster eats into your available camber range.

The steering feel is phenominal and regular tracks like TWS, but add the "bumps" or mogals as i refer to them, and it becomes a workout.

I did the FM style depower w/ plugs from miataroadster and couldnt be happier...till the mogals appeared. thankfully I do not run HHR often, that was my first day at actual speed. I had done a few parade laps before.
These is so much **** that came loose in my car after that beating, lol. I was taking a few bumps into #9 as moguls and could feel the car unload and spin the tires in I think 4-places on the track. I had to keep a dramaticaly different line than you through Carmen's Corner...there was no way I could stay on the track at your speeds through there.

I talked to Johnfag and apparently a guy who sets up SM cars at Hallett is running as much as 3.5* on one side...so apparently camber will help me out. I hope the camber and dropping the car works. My tein Flex are 4-years old (lived on a 1-track event per month track car)so it may be time to revalve them...and put 700lb springs up front.

How will adding all this camber affect grip from the acceleratron?
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
These is so much **** that came loose in my car after that beating, lol. I was taking a few bumps into #9 as moguls and could feel the car unload and spin the tires in I think 4-places on the track. I had to keep a dramaticaly different line than you through Carmen's Corner...there was no way I could stay on the track at your speeds through there.

I talked to Johnfag and apparently a guy who sets up SM cars at Hallett is running as much as 3.5* on one side...so apparently camber will help me out. I hope the camber and dropping the car works. My tein Flex are 4-years old (lived on a 1-track event per month track car)so it may be time to revalve them...and put 700lb springs up front.

How will adding all this camber affect grip from the acceleratron?
and braking...

for what it's worth, lowering the car will increase dynamic camber gain. as long as you're not hitting bump stops. this should help with cornering camber without hurting straight line camber as much during acceleration. braking may be a mixed bag since the suspension compresses more.

Miata Camber Curves
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:41 PM   #17
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The more camber you run generally the less you'll be able to hook up the rear tires coming out of corners. As pointed out above, the extra camber (and the extra bump steer you'll get from running really low) will also tend to make threshold braking more difficult.

One thing to keep in mind about taking advice from SM people is that however well it works on an SM you and others here have 2-3 times the power at the wheels, bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires, etc. This will necessitate some setup changes from what works for them.

Everything you do to the car is a tradeoff... ain't no free lunch.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:50 PM   #18
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so you guys still rock a rear bar with those spring rates?
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:58 PM   #19
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so you guys still rock a rear bar with those spring rates?
I have the stock rear bar on...its getting unhooked after I throw some camber in.

I don't have a problem hooking up in a straight line, I want to put the pedal down further, sooner on corner exit when I have some lateral load.

Right now steady state cornering is slower than Colin on his street rubber.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tann3r View Post
Thanks for the props Hustler. I really had fun chasing you.

I dont have too much in the form of weight reduction. I pulled PS, AC, airbags, radio/speakers (left the bose amp cause its hard to get to), and swaped to cobra imola seats. still had a full dash/console and carpets.

As mentioned I have a pretty basic setup. 750/450 FM AFCO's, 1.125" RB front bar, 5/8 FM rear bar. not sure exactly what my alignment numbers are as i have played with the ride height since my last alignment, but it should be close to:

Camber : 2.7 f / 3 r
Caster: 6*
Toe: 0

Ride height is ~11.5/11.75. I do want some more front camber next time i go back.

225/45/15 Hankook RS3's on 15x8 6ULs

I'm trying to figure out whether to run the TXMC in mod or unlimited, so i've beed running the past few events in mod trim (13 pts). I really want to buy a wing and build a splitter to get to the upper end of mod, but money is tight for a while.

Also other than R-package tie rod ends, is there any other way to reduce bumpsteer on an NB? I was getting my *** kicked by the bumps out there. If my only recourse is to hit the gym, I guess that isnt too bad of an option.
Hey, I'm running an almost identical suspension setup. Have you found compression and rebound settings that work well for you yet? Still tinkering?
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